Well Warrington and St Helens didn't come remotely close to selling it out this year, and for that matter neither did Warrington and Hull FC in 2016. The less said about Warrington V Catalans the better, but I definitely thought Hull's first ever win at Wembley and Saints' first visit there in 11 years would have generated bigger crowds than they did.

Yes, I was at all three games mentioned before anyone asks.

Even if there was not a bond, any club has the right and free choice to not enter the challenge cup.

The RFL cannot force clubs to take part and that is a good thing.

In English football for example, clubs can choose to not take part in the FA cup or League Cup.

Is it, perhaps, that the CC Final has lost a good deal of its gloss now that the GF is the 'glamorous' finale to the season? Once upon a time it was THE big game but no longer.

I first went about 1971 and then and throughout the ensuing years it was the fans "big day out" we saved up for. Thousands of fans were neutral and many wore their club jerseys so it was fun to see if you could see and count jerseys from all the clubs. London was longer in time to get to and more expensive than it is now.

Times really really do change, now fans have Magic to go to and the Grand final is the real sell out(ish) showpiece. I haven't been to Wembley for many years but have loved Magic and the GF.

I disagree you can sell any event out "[ias long as you are smart and proactive"[/i there's so many many more events to spend our limited money on nowadays and the Challenge cup final has turned into something like Football's league cup, in reality for SL teams who can win this if they aren't going to win the Superleague. We keep it because it's a great Terrestrial TV showpiece that the Beeb show, which reminds people Rugby League is still alive and well.

Good post that Donners.

Quote Ste100Centurions="Ste100Centurions"To quote myself .... "even if they were, I doubt that Toulouse as a Championship club would have been asked". My main point revolves around Toulouse & the RFL's inability to run a fair league, I would go as far as to say that they are actively complicit in aiding the potential promotion of TO13, would anyone be surprised if it were proven true ?'" Ste, It looks like Toulouse's original home fixture against London has now been switched to Headingley, as part of a reverse 'double header' https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/r ... 1-10105339 So, technically, they don't have a home fixture against London Broncos at all - i.e. one at Toulouse RU, one at Trailfinders, and one at Headingley.

Quote Ste100Centurions="Ste100Centurions"To quote myself .... "even if they were, I doubt that Toulouse as a Championship club would have been asked". My main point revolves around Toulouse & the RFL's inability to run a fair league, I would go as far as to say that they are actively complicit in aiding the potential promotion of TO13, would anyone be surprised if it were proven true ?'" Ste, It looks like Toulouse's original home fixture against London has now been switched to Headingley, as part of a reverse 'double header' https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/r ... 1-10105339 So, technically, they don't have a home fixture against London Broncos at all - i.e. one at Toulouse RU, one at Trailfinders, and one at Headingley.

Fundamentally, every club in the competition, should have to play a full program of fixtures -including all cup competitions that are part of the league that they are is. It's not difficult
For some of the overseas clubs (especially Toronto), perhaps it's ok fo them to play their home cup fixtures at the "away" ground, although, even this isn't quite in keeping in the spirit of the competition.
Yes, there can be logistical issues but, EVERYONE knows about these prior to their application to join and to their having been accepted into the comp.

Bond's, for clubs that may reach a final but, may not sell their allocation are just ridiculous and again, EVERYONE knows that there will be some issues if certain sides make it to a major final.

Those "running" the game should already have a plan in place for all eventualities and to be caught out when there is a surprise participant in a major final is just amateur time.

We could certainly have a Catalan v Toronto final at some point and there SHOULD be something in place to mitigate any negative issues that may arise from this (attendance being the obvious one).

You're right. Times do change. But that also means that the RFL needs to change with it - and that's my point. I'm not just talking about simply "advertising more" and doing more of the same things that clearly aren't working - I'm talking about making changes that ensures that the CC Final is and remains relevant in the wider sporting market. The cup needs an entire rebrand. New and casual fans don't care about the history or tradition. Regular fans know that Groupon deals are never far away. The whole match day experience is dated and tired. In the age of Instagram, the event lacks FOMO.

Your comments about RL fans having more 'big days out' kind of point to the main issue - we're trying to drink from the same well over and over again, and not being "smart and proactive" in making the CC Final an event that new audiences want to buy into. Yes, the typical RL fan is probably spending their money on other events, so be proactive and adapt to that. The traditional fan base isn't enough to grow the game anyway - why not make the CC Final something that breaks the mould and does something daring to attract new sets of eyeballs?

I'd personally rebrand the whole CC competition - make it something new, something daring. What makes the CC Final distinctive? What makes it different to everything else out there? If we have to irriate a few traditionalists along the way, so be it. The traditionalists aren't turning out at Wembley any more, so let's make something that people want to buy. It's an entertainment product first and foremost - if we entertain people, people will buy it.

But what's our idea of pre-match entertainment? That boorish oik from Rugby AM MC'ing a fan park, 20 minutes of an X Factor quarter finalist and Abide with Me. By all means respect tradition, but modernise and move with the times.

You can make the CC Final something exciting. You can make it something that entertains people and something that people want to buy. You can also dismiss all of the above as "pie in the Sky" and "something the game can't afford" but do you know what happens to businesses that don't adapt to the market? They die.

Or maybe because the prices are ridiculous. High cost with low attendance.

To me it would surely make more sense to lower the cost to slightly below mid-range and sell more?

60,000 people @ an average ticket price of £50 = £3,000,000

80,000 people @ an average ticket price of £38 = £3,040,000

Stadium near enough full, speccies happier, looks a better prospect to potential sponsors, more revenue generated from food and drink kiosks, local area generates more business from greater footfall... Seems a no brainer to me.

Yes, fair point.

£50 for a Cup final which is supposed to be a showpiece event isn't ridiculous.