I'm suggesting England play the two group games against the smaller teams at stadiums in the heartlands, which would mean maybe up to a 25000 capacity. The group game against Australia or New Zealand - assuming that we have one of those teams in our group - can be played at a stadium with a much bigger capacity. Perhaps somewhere between 50000 and even Wembley at 90000 if it's Australia and part of a double header/opening ceremony. I'd then probably be aiming for a stadium of around 25000-45000 for the QF. It depends on who England at likely to play and what stadiums are due a game. The SF at Wembley and Final at OT is already decided on.

Making comparisons with rugby union is completely pointless. You need to forget about what RU can do and focus on what is realistic for rugby league. Otherwise you might as well suggest that England RL builds its own stadium because England RU has Twickenham, and then you can schedule Wales RL matches at the Principality Stadium because if Wales RU can get 75000 there, why can't Wales RL? Scotland RL can then play at Murrayfield, no doubt according to you in front of 60000 like the RU team does, IF only the RFL would get their marketing right. It's a nonsense and leads only to rugby league biting off more than it can chew. RL has 'thought big' on a few occasions and has often ended up looking a bit foolish - in terms of having half empty stadiums, I mean.

I don't know why someone decided to set a target of 1 million spectators. It sounds a nice figure, I suppose. Saying 1 million has more impact than saying 600000 or 800000 or whatever. It's more than double the number that attended in 2013 though, so I'd say it was fairly optimistic.

France and Ireland are also interested in hosting games for the 2021 world cup https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... seas-hosts

France and Ireland are also interested in hosting games for the 2021 world cup https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... seas-hosts

Disagree with this sentiment.

Samoa v USA in Brighton...a city with no professional Rugby side and no pedigree in the sport, attracted 29,000 fans. It is highly unlikely that many Samoan or American tourists were in the crowd that day, so you have to ask who was?

Samoa v USA could well be a pool match in 4 years time......is it your belief we're best not to book a stadium that holds 30k and try to fill it, but instead play it at Craven Park and hope to get 5k?

Union is the closest sport to ours and as such, comparisons are a daily event, whether they be regarding how the BBC hides our comp whilst ITV champions the other code, or how the RFU manages to make multiple millions on the gate for meaningless friendlies whilst we struggle at a tenner a ticket......it's time that we started really promoting ourselves and if that means sending staff out into schools and colleges and making sure that hosting cities are accountable for their ticket sales and promotion then so be it....I'd be aiming for all 92,000 tickets for next years Kiwi Tour to be sold by the start of the season and EVERY TICKET PURCHASER should be canvassed on their intentions for 2021......If the 1,000,000 was an optimistic number, then why say it? 31,000 as an average is a bit of a stretch, especially when 11 of the 28 games in 2013 didn't get past 4 digits and only one stand alone game got above 31k, but that's the number used in the bid and that's the target the RFL have given themselves....and never mind comparison with Union I'd be copying everything they did and trying to get 29,000 to Samoa v USA.....

I have no idea who attended that game or what the ticket prices were or what marketing they did. However, I do know that there is huge interest in international rugby union that simply doesn't exist with international rugby league. England rugby union gets 80000 at Twickenham seven or more times a year. England rugby league could only get 67000 at Wembley for a once in a blue moon World Cup semi final in 2013. I'm not knocking England RL - I like the sport and I'll always back my national team - but you can't pretend that the two sports are equal in terms of interest in the international game. Therefore just because RU can do something, it doesn't follow that RL can just copy it and achieve the same results. That's just pie in the sky stuff.



I'm saying that RL needs to be realistic. It needs to forget about RU and look at the evidence from past attendances and be sensible when trying to decide what sort of stadium is appropriate for each fixture and each stage of the competition. In principle I'm not against using any stadium. I'd be delighted if they used Wembley and got 90000 for Samoa v USA. But my head tells me that sort of attendance is unobtainable. I think 30000 is probably too optimistic as well. Good marketing and promotion can help any event - sporting or otherwise - but it can't work miracles.




The BBC doesn't hide anything. That's paranoid nonsense. The RLWC just isn't worth showing because not enough people are interested in it. What they do cover they do well. You can't tell me that Mark Chapman, Dave Woods, Brian Noble etc. aren't positive and enthusiastic about RL. But you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. If RL is unhappy with the BBC's coverage of the world cup it can instead go to ITV or Channel 4 or Sky or BT. Or are you going to claim that they're all against RL too?

It's not thinking small it's thinking sensibly. You don't got from the attendance figures for the 2013 QF's that were posted previously to 40/50/60k stadiums.

For the England QF game that did 20k+, try a 30/35k stadium. Those that did mid teens numbers go for 20-25k stadiums and for the last one that only did 5k go for a 15k stadium.

You have to build to get the biggest (or even mid sized) stadiums and International RL isn't at that point where we can fill them consistently.

What figures RU got for the World Cup in England are completely irrelevant despite your obsession with it. The stadiums and figures we go for should be ones that are right for us, not chosen because another sport got a certain figure between two overseas teams there. Do you think RU is kicking itself and getting criticised because a football World Cup in England could do even better numbers between two of the weaker lower profile teams than what RU did at Brighton.

The 2013 RLWC averaged nearly double the attendances achieved in 2000, the last time it was held in the UK........31,000 attended the QF's in 2000......58,000 in 2013.....24k for the semis went to 68 and 45k turned to 75k for the final......I am advocating that we look to continue that level of growth in the UK.

As for my apparent "obeseeion".....In the 1970's England RU played 50 games over 10 years.....between 2000 and 2009 they played 104.....guess which teams figures for the 70's are 44 and the noughties is 41 (with England taking over from GB at the end of 2007)? They have doubled the number of international games and in terms of their WC, they've grown interest and attendance from 1991 to 2015 by 73% on the gate and you're saying we should not learn from them?

Yes we are a different sport, with a vastly different demographic, but that's not to say we can't think bigger.....and getting the public on board is all about ENGLAND or GREAT BRITAIN as a brand!

WC in winter is really going to be a hard sell to attract a lot of new fans. Getting 30k in Brighton for a RU pool game is easier when you can pretty much guarantee it's going to be at 15C warmer.

That game in Brighton was played at the end of September; not exactly high summer!
When I started watching the game live in 1990 I attended massive events at Wembley for the Ashes in 1990, World Cup Final of 1992, Ashes 1994, then first game and Final of the 1995 World Cup. I come from that well known Rugby League heartland of Northampton - I was a “thick and thin” Cobblers fan - and after watching that Ashes Test in 1990 I’ve never watched a soccer game since!
The Super League war knocked the international game for six - we got in a mindless of not playing even the Aussies in a stadium with more than 25k capacity and 10km from the M62 in case there was an empty seat.
Dog is right - if we’re saying the 2021 World Cup will top 31k per game we need Samoa v USA or equivalent to push WELL in to double figures. If we as a game are not up to delivering this, why state it as a target?

Quote nkpom="nkpom"The Super League war knocked the international game for six - we got in a mindless of not playing even the Aussies in a stadium with more than 25k capacity and 10km from the M62 in case there was an empty seat.'" You might want to take a look at the attendances for Great Britain games listed here: www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... tml?page=2 If you do you'll see that the games you mentioned (1990, 92) were the exception rather than the rule. I'm very envious of you though because those two matches are probably my favourite ever RL games. The 2nd Test in 1990 was amazing too, but I especially like the games at Wembley. England RL played at Twickenham in 2000 and got 33000. Wales used the Millennium Stadium and got 17000. Both of those were world cup games and not just 'friendly' matches.

Quote nkpom="nkpom"The Super League war knocked the international game for six - we got in a mindless of not playing even the Aussies in a stadium with more than 25k capacity and 10km from the M62 in case there was an empty seat.'" You might want to take a look at the attendances for Great Britain games listed here: www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... tml?page=2 If you do you'll see that the games you mentioned (1990, 92) were the exception rather than the rule. I'm very envious of you though because those two matches are probably my favourite ever RL games. The 2nd Test in 1990 was amazing too, but I especially like the games at Wembley. England RL played at Twickenham in 2000 and got 33000. Wales used the Millennium Stadium and got 17000. Both of those were world cup games and not just 'friendly' matches.

Did you mean "surly" or "surely?"

Rugby union has.

A 6 nations, tour somewhere, and countries touring here (including the likes of Samoa, Fiji etc).whatever the tournament that Australia, New Zealand, South Africa etc havery. And an international 7's tournament every year. All covered by either the BBC or sky. And in print media.
And every 2 years it's either a WC (again mostly covered by the bbc), or a Lions tour.

We have, 1 Anzac's test, either a 4 nations (that if we now venues 5 months before hand we're doing well). Or a nation touring here for 3 test and possibly 1 other game.

With what RU have, it's far easier to sell a game like Samoa/Usa as people all ready now about teams. And it's far easier to sell a competition.