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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: luke ShipleyRed "2 many games become a dead rubber,.'"


There's a relatively simple solution to this - we need fewer games. One thing that many sports are finding is that bigger events are better for generating interest than simply "more games". We do it with the Magic Weekend, and rugby union does it with things like the Twickenham opener, the Saracens games at Wembley and the Welsh double-header in the Pro14.

I'm a firm believer that we need fewer games anyway because we currently flog our top talent far too much, but it has the added benefit of making points more scarce, which should improve standards, and reduce the number of dead rubbers.

I understand that certain clubs argue that they need the fixtures but this, again, is where the sport is falling behind in the modern sports market. Other sports are moving away from a reliance on ticket revenue as an income stream, and diversifying their revenue streams - making more money from TV, from hospitality, from sponsorships, from digital, from merchandising and from non-matchday revenue. Again, that's what our clubs should be doing much more of.

As for audiences, there are undoubtedly new audiences out there to be tapped into. We have affluent parts of North Yorkshire and Cheshire on our doorstep, yet our clubs really aren't tapping into those markets - that's a failure of marketing.

And if we have genuinely saturated the market, that's why expansion becomes even more important. It's why North America is an exciting prospect because, even though they might not bring the "away fans" that people seem to think are so important it really doesn't matter than much, because if we can just tap into a tiny fraction of the North American TV market, it changes the game completely.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: Budgiezilla "Calm down, you expansion loving Penus !!! icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Call Me God "Keighley got 5 gates over 5k in a decade.....I'd take New York, London, Paris, Munich.......
Toronto failing would be yet another blow for expansion, with the "traditionalists" lining up to say "I told you so". and to be fair, IF they were to fail, those people would be right.
There has to be some longevity to the plight of ANY RL club and a 3-4 year plan, based on attaining SL status isn't good business, whether it be a pit village or a metropolis.

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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: wrencat1873 "Toronto failing would be yet another blow for expansion, with the "traditionalists" lining up to say "I told you so". and to be fair, IF they were to fail, those people would be right.
There has to be some longevity to the plight of ANY RL club and a 3-4 year plan, based on attaining SL status isn't good business, whether it be a pit village or a metropolis.'"

The maths are simple...to be a viable RL club in the professional ranks of SL you need a 10,000 average gate and if you are "renting" a stadium, then 11k is the target.
Wire, Saints, FC, Leeds and the pies are the clubs that deliver at present.....Castleford and Catalans are close, but the rest aren't delivering. Well meaning owners like O'Neill, Hudgell, Davy, Hughes and Beaumont are good to have, but the reality is they back "yoyo" clubs who dwell at the bottom half of the table or in the 2nd tier and with the return to relegation any chances of "building" both on and off the park are again gone and it's all about avoiding the drop....I wonder what will happen once toronto get up......will they close the door behind them.

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Quote: Call Me God "Great debating skills there eusa_clap.gif

I was 'having a laugh' something you seem incapable of doing, bet you're great fun at Parties ! icon_biggrin.gif

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Hull KR the pride of East Hull.:



Quote: wrencat1873 "Toronto failing would be yet another blow for expansion, with the "traditionalists" lining up to say "I told you so". and to be fair, IF they were to fail, those people would be right.
There has to be some longevity to the plight of ANY RL club and a 3-4 year plan, based on attaining SL status isn't good business, whether it be a pit village or a metropolis.'"



Even though Toronto have had some help from the RFL (extending the league 1 salary cap, changing the way league 1 promotion etc). The way they started in the lowest league gives them a solid base. It's helped them build the brand. And show people in the city the game and club.
I don't think that the way the fixture list been done this year helps them. But if they go up no one can really argue against them as they would have done it the right way.
Funny enough to see where Toronto are, we need them to have a bad season where they really struggle. Then we'll see if crowds are going to stick with them etc.

I've said all along, to build a strong RL it's not about expansion v heartlands. It's about both moving together. Growing together, same rules for everyone. Accepting each other. Both need each other,

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