I Hate to be 'that guy' but Gale obviously wouldn't get a Holden cup squad place given the fact he is way over the age limit, the Holden cup being the 20's comp and all.

Gale is a very good player, certainly a better half than some players who have played quite regularly in the NRL this year (I'm thinking Josh McCrone, Matt Frawley, Trent Hodkinson, Jaelen Feeney) and better than guys who have come over here with a lot of NRL appearances at their back.

To say he wouldn't make it is silly, we won't know unless he ever tries, and imo we don't have a yardstick as no half as done it recently. (I'd argue say Long and McGuire off the top of my head could have made it over there). Same can be said of young Williams. The player you named Flanagan, is a good prospect, but if he was that good he'd have played at some point, like Cleary or Ash Taylor.

Anyway. Gale to win, Kelly second, he's been the perfect foil and the reason Sneyd has played so well imo. Hardaker not got a chance of winning. A good player yes, but multiple man of steel awards put him alongside Farrell, Hanley and Sculthorpe, that doesn't add up at this point.

Wigan have lost every game O'Loughlin missed this season & performances noticeably dropped when he was on the bench. 27 appearances this year out of 35, so one of his better seasons for appearances too.

I wasn't aiming that at you at all, just in general. Who has been better at loose this year? I don't think this has necessarily been his best year, although the stats with and without him say alot, but I am struggling to come up with anyone better.

And being able to make every tackle around the neck, whilst avoiding censure himself - he's like a Jedi.

That said - he's a great player - he can do pretty much everything the game requires, to a very high level of skill - for at least part of the season.

In other news Widdop was just named the best stand off in the NRL this year by a panel made up of mainly Australian (some kiwi) ex-players, even though he played in a team that didnt make the playoffs.

Sounds like lauding to me!

And i'm sure he missed several weeks through injury so pretty good going. To be fair they were flying before he got injured and would more than likely have been well in the play offs were he fit all year.

Widdop is a very good player, but so is Gale. IF, and it's a big IF the England pack can for once compete with the big two over there then i'm quietly confident both can impress in the WC.