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| Quote Kelvin's Ferret="Kelvin's Ferret"I don't consider London to be a RU stronghold. It's true that London is the home of the Establishment and RU is very much an Establishment game (although it has worked hard to broaden it's appeal in a way RL has not), but the "big" London RU clubs are on the edges where London merges with the home counties, and more of the big English RU clubs are actually in the South West or Midlands.
I think there is a parochial mindset entrenched amongst a significant section of the RL base which has always held back expansion, I suspect it (partly) has its roots in the way RL emerged as a distinctly professional sport, so the 'amateur' side of RL came as an afterthought in a way that isn't true of other sports that are played professionally. There have been some genuine attempts to break out of being a regional sport, but it's always done with a chunk of the RL base fighting against it every inch of the way. English RU on the other hand has been far more willing to embrace change and far less dogged by small mindedness. Interestingly I'd suggest that some of the experiences of Scottish and Welsh RU have been more akin to RL's struggles, but they have that stronger international game to fall back on.
RL in Australia has fared better the social and economic conditions were better:
- Association Football has never had the same level of dominance as it does in the UK (and huge swathes of the rest of the world)
- Australia has less of the baggage that came with the 'RU' split
- The RL heartland in Australia developed in its most populous and economically powerful region (NSW), whereas RL's heartlands are within the historic counties of Lancashire, Yorkshire and Cumberland, which declined in relative economic power throughout the 20th century.
I look back on the first time I visited The Stoop to watch the Broncos in the Branson era, it was big and bold and there was a sense of great things being possible with SL, we played Saints and a few players like Paul Sculthorpe werase coming close to having a genuine national profile. Twenty years later and it has imploded.'"
Agree,as you say 20 years ago RL was definately on the up.
What happened ? |
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| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"Perhaps the op needs to read a couple of the League history books.
Following the split in 1895, it was only clubs in the north of England that broke away.
At the time, it appeared that clubs in the Midlands and South Wales would follow. However, the Union hierarchy, realising that their game was in jeopardy made some changes, which were designed to prevent their sport being over run and controlled by rough northerners.
The measures taken were successful and therefore it becamne impossible to grow the sport in other areas.
If they (the RFU) had allowed broken time payments in the first place, there would never have been a split and our sport wouldnt exist.
Therefore, of course Union is at a higher level in many parts of the UK.
However, League remains more popular in terms of player numbers and spectator numbers in Yorkshire and Lancashire.
Union of course, has the pull of the six nations and has a much more developed international program and the domestic game rides on the back of this.
There are only 2 top flight Union clubs in the North of England, Newcastle, who average around 6,000 fans for their home games and Sale, who average around 6,400, neither of which compete with the top of SL.
At the other end of the scale are Leicester with an average of 21,500, which is excellent.
Bearing in mind that they have national coverage, full and total support of the national media and a far better international program, their domestic attendances are not so far ahead of League.
We should be very proud of our sport and grateful to those players in the late 19th Century, who dared to fight the establishment and gave us a faster, more attacking and far more exciting sport to watch.
It will always be an uphill struggle to expand the game in the UK but, that shouldn't stop us trying.'"
Not saying you are wrong but I would love to see some stats to back up your claim about participation numbers in Lancashire and Yorkshire given that in Lancashire for example, the rugby league clubs are centred around heartland towns like Wigan, St. Helens etc yet pretty much every town or village in Lancashire has a rugby union team, with a first, second and third team,with a youth set up. I would go out on a limb and say that there are more union players in Lancashire than league, by a huge margin
Regards
King James |
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| Club Coach | 763 | Castleford Tigers |
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| Quote Exiled down south="Exiled down south"and for some that's good news and sadly that's the mindset we need to break because other sports are re-branding, changing to meets the needs of the new consumer....... Look at the success of Wasps RU in Coventry moving away from London.
Change will come from the top and whilst we have big Nige the ultimate parochial northerner at the helm there isn't a chance in hell it will happen. We need to bring in another "Lewis" type character to bring a fresh thinking
I had a Quins RU season Ticket a few years back and what struck me was how uninformed the supporters were about the sport. It was a boys jolly out watching rugger drinking real ale and talking poop with there chums away from the board room.'" I am afraid its you and others like you with your blinked views that are the reason all expansion clubs fail.
If you dont understand the real issues facing growing a sport in new area's then you will always be doomed to fail. |
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| Player Coach | 2415 | Halifax R.L.F.C. |
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| Quote ian6227="ian6227"
Nigel Wood. 20 years ago Halifax were on the up. Then we got Nigel Wood.
With hindsight we shouldn't have been so happy to have given him to the whole sport
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| Quote Lebron James="Lebron James"What on earth are you babbling on about? What point of mine are you trying to address? That rugby league isn't more skilful or that the game is going backwards at an alarming rate whilst rugby goes from strength to strength?
Regards
King James'"
He's not addressing any point , he's just pointing out you're a =#FF0000Let's leave the childish insults to the playground please. Karen. |
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One thing that has recently come to the fore is Unions current war on high tackles and concussion , if RL doesn't address these same issues we will see less youngsters playing and ultimately a fall in standards
As much as we see the ' Biff ' and ' big hits ' as part of the game these things will turn off parents from letting their kids play the game
RL is THE toughest team sport you can play , however in our H and S concious world we must remove some of the less attractive parts of the game
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| Quote GUBRATS="GUBRATS"He's not addressing any point , he's just pointing out you're a =#FF0000Let's leave the childish insults to the playground please. Karen.'"
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I think perhaps folk living in the heartlands underestimate the extent of ignorance of league in most of the country. When people find out I'm a league fan, they almost inevitably start banging on about Bath or the 6N. Even people who regard themselves as sports fans often don't understand that they are two different sports. I firmly believe that the lack of league on free to air TV has a lot to do with that. You can see cricket heading the same way. When I was a kid, Ashes Tests were massive events the whole country talked about. Nobody talks about them now (relatively speaking).
As mentioned upthread,, crowds at most RU club matches are unexceptional, to say the least. But RU has marketed itself well to attract the attention (and money) of casual fans, most of whom know little of the laws of the game. And it's undeniable that being the Establishment game has got a lot to do with it. That, and the lack of international fixtures. It doesn't matter too much if England RU get tanked by the All Blacks, cos fans can see them beating plenty of other nations. Especially the Welsh, cos wins against them always go down well with the Little Englanders.
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| Quote wrencat1873="wrencat1873"Perhaps the op needs to read a couple of the League history books.
Following the split in 1895, it was only clubs in the north of England that broke away.
At the time, it appeared that clubs in the Midlands and South Wales would follow. However, the Union hierarchy, realising that their game was in jeopardy made some changes, which were designed to prevent their sport being over run and controlled by rough northerners.
The measures taken were successful and therefore it becamne impossible to grow the sport in other areas.
If they (the RFU) had allowed broken time payments in the first place, there would never have been a split and our sport wouldnt exist.
Therefore, of course Union is at a higher level in many parts of the UK.
However, League remains more popular in terms of player numbers and spectator numbers in Yorkshire and Lancashire.
Union of course, has the pull of the six nations and has a much more developed international program and the domestic game rides on the back of this.
There are only 2 top flight Union clubs in the North of England, Newcastle, who average around 6,000 fans for their home games and Sale, who average around 6,400, neither of which compete with the top of SL.
At the other end of the scale are Leicester with an average of 21,500, which is excellent.
Bearing in mind that they have national coverage, full and total support of the national media and a far better international program, their domestic attendances are not so far ahead of League.
We should be very proud of our sport and grateful to those players in the late 19th Century, who dared to fight the establishment and gave us a faster, more attacking and far more exciting sport to watch.
It will always be an uphill struggle to expand the game in the UK but, that shouldn't stop us trying.'"
I am aware of the origins of RL, I suppose what I want to know is why Local Authority Schools during the 60s and 70s didn't allow League to be played in the heartland of the game ( northwest in my case ). |
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| Quote moto748="moto748"I think perhaps folk living in the heartlands underestimate the extent of ignorance of league in most of the country. When people find out I'm a league fan, they almost inevitably start banging on about Bath or the 6N. Even people who regard themselves as sports fans often don't understand that they are two different sports. I firmly believe that the lack of league on free to air TV has a lot to do with that. You can see cricket heading the same way. When I was a kid, Ashes Tests were massive events the whole country talked about. Nobody talks about them now (relatively speaking).
As mentioned upthread,, crowds at most RU club matches are unexceptional, to say the least. But RU has marketed itself well to attract the attention (and money) of casual fans, most of whom know little of the laws of the game. And it's undeniable that being the Establishment game has got a lot to do with it. That, and the lack of international fixtures. It doesn't matter too much if England RU get tanked by the All Blacks, cos fans can see them beating plenty of other nations. Especially the Welsh, cos wins against them always go down well with the Little Englanders.'"
By unexceptional do you mean an average attendance in the U.K. That is greater than super league by 35%?
Regards
King James |
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| Quote Lebron James="Lebron James"By unexceptional do you mean an average attendance in the U.K. That is greater than super league by 35%?
Regards
King James'"
Yes that's what he meant , unexceptional , given all the advantages they historically have their attendances are unexceptional |
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