If widdop is in for his game management, it's terrible. I've not seen the game back on TV however he made three massive mistakes;

Kicking the ball out on the full from the kick off, I don't understand this obsession with trying to land the ball one yard from the dead ball line, for every one you win, 5 will go out on the full

The intercept

Passing down the blind side one yard from the try line when hodgson was set for a drop goal, dreadful 'game management'

Clearly others made mistakes, the Lomax missed tackle, Sarginson knocking on at a crucial time stand out.

For me, Williams and Percival should be in for next week

Two things cost us a game we should have won against mediocre opposition (on the day) - the amateurish mistakes (see post above) and the lack of creativity by the halves in that first 20 minutes or so when we should have scored two of three tries with that level of domination. One half back was anonymous, the other, Widdop, looked at his best during the game but in reality created nothing. Even one decent half back and we'd have created something.

So much doom and gloom and over the top criticism on here.

No, leeds fans don't think watkins is the best thing since sliced bread but it was stated before the tournament he had been framed as the scapegoat and when other players (sarginson, bombed 2 tries by not passing, S Burgess - the prodigal son producing numerous brain farts) produce as damaging mistakes and escape the same level of verbal abuse then it only backs up the scapegoat point and discredits those views.

NZ had a hit out against aus last week....we played france. We lost by a point and the game could have easily gone the other way.

The problem is that after decades of losing, we're too willing to excuse failure. Internationals aren't like a league season, where coaches get to talk about "improving performances" and "peaking at the right time". You get very few chances, and then you've won or lost. That's it. I don't watch England with the goal of seeing them get close, build towards something, or suffer another valiant defeat. I want them to win. Bennett's comments this morning were right: we need to learn how to win. Otherwise, we're becoming like France, where they get complimented on 'brave' performances, while getting tanked by 30 points. Patronising garbage.

We dominated the opening 30 minutes and didn't score. We gave the Kiwis two soft, soft tries they didn't have to work for. We had a whole 15 minutes to equalise which would at least mean we didn't have to beat the Aussies to stand a chance of the final, but we didn't take a single one of the many opportunities in that time.

I'm 46. I've never seen England or GB win a competition in my life. If we keep excusing failure, I'll never see one before I die.

At international level, being 'competitive' is just code for losing. We should have won yesterday. We had the forwards, the territory and the possession to do so. We need to stop hiding behind Johnson and make whatever ruthless changes are required to win. Enough losing.

I hear what you're saying, but everytime we almost beat NZ and Australia count for nothing.

My observation is we matched the kiwis in the forwards but the main difference was Johnson again. The weaknesses in the England team are in the centre's and fullback. Lomax, Sarginson and Watkins are decent SL players but not up to NRL/international standard. On a positive note I think England are benefitting from a few of our pack getting invaluable NRL experience.

Think some people need to look up the definition of scapegoat. I don't think a single person has blamed Watkins solely for the defeat or poor performances, just that he is utter crap in an England shirt - same goes for a few others.

But I guess we need stop in case we hurt Waktins' little feelings

The problem is we have no depth in the centres.Ryan Atkins? But at his age he isn't the answer going forward. The centres have been a problem for a while. The fact we played Bateman in the centres last year tells you all you need to know.

Having watched the game back on TV, individual errors cost us massively.
1. Sarginson's woeful defensive positioning for NZ's first try. I have no idea where he thought he was supposed to be or what he was supposed to be doing.
2. Lomax's missed tackle. The NZ player didn't even step, change direction or change speed. A player at international level should be making that tackle every time.
3. Widdop's interception pass. Just awful. Johnson would have been in his eye-line as he released the ball so he should have realised the pass wasn't on.
So three NZ tries as a result of mistakes that shouldn't be happening at this level.
Added to Widdop's poor decision on the last tackle when we were 1 point behind, Sarginson's inability to pass to Ryan Hall when he has a clear run to the try line and the kick-out in the full, it's clear we have some players who can't get through an international game without doing things that cost us points.
I'm not one for chopping and changing half backs, but I would be looking at a Williams/Gale combination against Scotland. However, playing Scotland is very different to playing Australia or NZ. I sense Bennett will stick with Widdop and Gale all the way through.
Without doubt, Percival has to come in for Sarginson. He looked completely out of his depth.
I'm torn on Lomax and Ratchford. Other than the missed tackle I thought Lomax made good metres for his kick returns.
Whatever happens, we are not good enough to beat Australia. We couldn't beat a NZ side with one or two world class players (Johnson, Taumololo) so we stand no chance against a team with Boyd, Thurston, Cronk, Smith, Inglis, Frizzell, Thiday etc.

We tried our best but the reality is all of the kiwi players perform at a higher level in the NRL. Johnson is different class to anything we've got and I think they'll be privately disappointed they didn't beat us by more points. Despite the defeat and costly errors we made I still think we performed nearer to our full potential than they did.

The result isn't what we hoped for but with several of our boys playing in an inferior competition it's hardly a surprising outcome. I think this is why someone as knowledgeable as Bennett played down England chances before the competition. The simple fact is we can match their effort and enthusiasm but collectively we're not good enough.

Thought the impact of the Burgess brothers of the bench was very limited. Cooper added a spark.