FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Don't get carried away about England's future prospects. |
![](images/sitelogos/2022-2.jpg) |
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6809 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/71.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2023 | Jan 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
18302_1567366773.png [b:1crbsr9w] Toulouse for Championship in 2017, Super League in 2021!
Avignon for Championship in 2021, Super League in 2022! [/b:1crbsr9w]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18302.png |
|
| Many people are getting carried away by the narrow England series win against a badly depleted New Zealand side.
Consider, based on current form, the New Zealand side that England will probably face in 2017 (players missing from this series in bold)Roger Tuivasa-Sheck
Jason Nightingale, Dean Whare, Shaun Kenny-Dowell, Manu Vatuvei.
Kieran Foran
Shaun Johnson
Jason Taumololo
Simon Mannering, Kevin Proctor
Jared Warea- Hargreaves, Isaac Luke, Jesse Bromwich
[/i
InterchangeKodi Nikorima, Samuel Moa, Benjamin Matulino, Tohu Harris[/i,
That is a hell of a team. The missing halves, loose forward and prop would have made a huge difference.
The possible inclusion in a future England team of George and Samuel Burgess, Jack Reed, and perhaps Samuel Tomkins (where would he be fitted?), would not offset the dramatic increase in New Zealand's ability that would come from having the six missing players available.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 11412 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
|
| Quote: kobashi "Like I have said before, tomkins injury free at his best is a better support player then Hardaker and offers more attacking threat. I think you are forgetting how good Tomkins was when he was previously in Super League.'"
Yes but Tomkins shouldn't be picked next year based on what he did for Wigan back in 2012 or 2013, it's got to be because of what he does in 2016 that should determine whether he gets a shirt.
Tomkins in a England or NZ Warriors shirt hasn't come close to matching what he did for Wigan, which was a couple of years ago now.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 29455 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/28.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
|
| Quote: ThePrinter "Yes but Tomkins shouldn't be picked next year based on what he did for Wigan back in 2012 or 2013, it's got to be because of what he does in 2016 that should determine whether he gets a shirt.
Tomkins in a England or NZ Warriors shirt hasn't come close to matching what he did for Wigan, which was a couple of years ago now.'"
He's had an injury hit 12 months but in his first season with the NZ Warriors he had a similar amount of trys/assists combined as Greg Inglis and Billy Slater managed. It was also a similar amount to that which superleagues man of steel racked up this season (in a comp that people openly admit is easier to score points in).
There seems to be a few people (not labelling this at you) who want Sam Tomkins to fail but I can't stress how important I think he is to this England side going forward. If people think he's world class or not he's still by a distance the best creative back we've produced in years and we'll need him fit and firing going forward. The other options in the fullback/halfback positions (Hardaker, Widdop, Smith, Williams, Gale etc) just aren't in that class. All good players but they're not Sam Tomkins.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 9565 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2019 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif :fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
|
| Tomkins is vital to England going forward IMO. He's one of the very few players who can create space and make tries. None of the halfbacks we've played in this series have shown that capability.
The issue with Sam T is where he plays. I'd love him to move permanently into the halfs. If anyone should be dropped from this series it would be Widdopp - Smith did more in that game than Widdopp has done in three, and Smith's not exactly the most dynamic halfback around.
As for forwards, our pack looks immeasurably stronger with S Burgess, regardless of where he plays. I'd go for 13 and let him have a roaming role just wide of the props. Hopefully Whitehead will improve at the Raiders, as we need more quality in the second row.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 7063 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
59880_1480501182.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_59880.jpg |
|
| Quote: BuckleyStreetWire "
Where I worry about England is in the halves. We do not have good halves. Thurston and Cronk, Johnson and Foran (with players in reserve three and four deep who would walk into our 6 and 7 shirts) make our lads look like a joke.'"
Agreed and i think HB will always be a problem as coaches don't have the bottle to play young HB's. Either because they don't think their physically big enough, or they never trust them. Coaches will always play a loose forward, second-rower, full back or centre at HB ahead of a young inexperienced HB.
I know Wigan and Shaun Wane get some stick on here, but i think they/he deserves huge credit for sticking with George Williams when they were struggling earlier in the season. Easy cop out for coaches is to blame the young HB and just play Sean O'loughlin there. Wane stuck with Williams, and allowed him to make mistakes and develop.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 959 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/26.png) |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2022 | Apr 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
6532.jpg [color=darkred:78pnm6qa]The[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=orange:78pnm6qa]future's[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=darkred:78pnm6qa]bright [/color:78pnm6qa] [color=orange:78pnm6qa]the[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=darkred:78pnm6qa]future[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=orange:78pnm6qa]is[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=darkred:78pnm6qa]claret[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=darkblue:78pnm6qa]n[/color:78pnm6qa] [color=orange:78pnm6qa]gold[/color:78pnm6qa]
@sd_barracudas:6532.jpg |
|
| I actually quite like the idea of a Smith/Tomkins HB pairing, IF Tomkins plays in the halves and plays well - which may be unlikely given Wigan's existing Smith/Williams pairing. I think Smith is an excellent scrum half who controls the game very well. Okay he's not particularly flair, but as we saw on Saturday he is capable of controlling a game, moving a side around the park and has a good kicking game. Pair him with a more exciting, creative player of Tomkins' ilk, and we could be getting somewhere.
|
|
|
![](images/sitelogos/2022-2.jpg) |
|
![](images/sitelogos/2022-2.jpg) |