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| Quote rover49="rover49"I would have thought if a club wanted to cheat it would be easier than the example here, all you need to do is pay a player 50k through the clubs books and pay the rest into an overseas account NOT from the clubs books. Probably being done currently.'"
Fiddling the salary cap is one thing, fiddling the tax man (which this would be) is going to result in prison.
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Administrator | 21314 | St. Helens |
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| As I have just said, the RFL, better than pretty much everyone else here, can probably guess pretty closely the weekly/monthly/yearly salary of every player in top grade, so with a live cap or similar, they could approximate the amount a player would demand.
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International Board Member | 1606 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Richie="Richie"Quote Richie="rover49"I would have thought if a club wanted to cheat it would be easier than the example here, all you need to do is pay a player 50k through the clubs books and pay the rest into an overseas account NOT from the clubs books. Probably being done currently.'"
Fiddling the salary cap is one thing, fiddling the tax man (which this would be) is going to result in prison.'"
But it's not an issue if it's a foreign owned and located company paying a player for 'non-rugby related' jobs during the off season.... As long as the tax is paid in the relevant country it's not an issue..... It's effectively a 2nd job in the eye of the tax man, that's all, the player can notify and pay their aspect of the tax, it has nothing to do with the RFL and they can do nothing about it unless they can prove the company is owned by someone to do with the club.... The RFL cannot stipulate players aren't allowed 2nd jobs.
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International Chairman | 14970 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"not a chance anyone is going for fraud. You would basically be suing someone for not colluding with you to keep wages down. It would be like suing the guy you burgled a house with for not giving you your share of the loot.
First thing that would happen if we had a Melbourne-esq situation is that one of the players involved would be throwing a lawsuit at the RFL for restraint of trade.'"
If clubs deliberately withhold salary cap information in order to gain an advantage then that is fraud. In the same if you don't tell your insurance company pertinent information when making a claim.
The Aussie police investigated Melbourne after their shenanigans but due to the high profile nature and political pressure from both Melbourne's owners and their number 1 fan it wasn't taken any further.
Over here there's no such situation to hold the police back, they'd love it. In the same way the UKBA went after RL imports with a vengeance and HMRC went after the image rights etc.
Don't let your dislike of the salary cap get in the way here, not reporting this kind of information is very, very serious and I can't see many clubs wanting to take that risk, especially as it only takes 1 disgruntled person to blow the whistle and there aren't the number of quality players around in SL to take a club from average to the top without it being blatantly obvious they're over the salary cap.
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| Quote Superted="Superted"But it's not an issue if it's a foreign owned and located company paying a player for 'non-rugby related' jobs during the off season.... As long as the tax is paid in the relevant country it's not an issue..... It's effectively a 2nd job in the eye of the tax man, that's all, the player can notify and pay their aspect of the tax, it has nothing to do with the RFL and they can do nothing about it unless they can prove the company is owned by someone to do with the club.... The RFL cannot stipulate players aren't allowed 2nd jobs.'"
If it could be done, and avoid tax, my own employer (I'm an international assignee) would be doing it. In reality, if the UK tax office sees a guy working 9 months here for x and sees him earning more than that for a short overseas period, they're going to call foul.
Back from the tax man to the RFL, I believe the salary cap rules state any "second job" income also counts towards the cap.
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Player Coach | 13190 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Richie="Richie"If it could be done, and avoid tax, my own employer (I'm an international assignee) would be doing it. In reality, if the UK tax office sees a guy working 9 months here for x and sees him earning more than that for a short overseas period, they're going to call foul.
Back from the tax man to the RFL, I believe the salary cap rules state any "second job" income also counts towards the cap.'"
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Player Coach | 13190 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Richie="Richie"If it could be done, and avoid tax, my own employer (I'm an international assignee) would be doing it. In reality, if the UK tax office sees a guy working 9 months here for x and sees him earning more than that for a short overseas period, they're going to call foul.
Back from the tax man to the RFL, I believe the salary cap rules state any "second job" income also counts towards the cap.'"
Bit harsh if he has a property income or owns a part of a family business that is successful. Some players are capable of earning more outside of rugby, I listened to an interview with Ben Cockayne about his 'second' income and he clearly stated he makes MORE from that than RL.
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International Chairman | 12792 | Leeds Rhinos |
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| Quote rover49="rover49"Bit harsh if he has a property income or owns a part of a family business that is successful.'"
That sort of thing isn't included. I doubt that Rob Burrow's physiotheraphy business is something that the salary cap auditors concern themselves with - unless Leeds Rhinos were making regular payments to that business.
The rules Richie alludes to issues such as sponsors (or other third parties) paying a player in return for benefits that could be related to the player's rugby activity (such as his image).
I believe that this was often used as a way to top-up player payments in the early days of the cap but now, those payments would typically count on cap. If Leeds Building Society wanted to pay Kevin Sinfield directly they could but if they plan to use him in a way that relies on his rugby playing activities (ie, "Leeds captain Kevin Sinfield endorses LBS's new account"), that counts on cap.
Similarly, I believe the employment of a player's partner also has salary cap impilications. That rule apparently changed after it transpired that a Mrs Renouf was the highest paid receptionist in the North West.
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| Quote bramleyrhino="bramleyrhino"That sort of thing isn't included. I doubt that Rob Burrow's physiotheraphy business is something that the salary cap auditors concern themselves with - unless Leeds Rhinos were making regular payments to that business.
The rules Richie alludes to issues such as sponsors (or other third parties) paying a player in return for benefits that could be related to the player's rugby activity (such as his image).
I believe that this was often used as a way to top-up player payments in the early days of the cap but now, those payments would typically count on cap. If Leeds Building Society wanted to pay Kevin Sinfield directly they could but if they plan to use him in a way that relies on his rugby playing activities (ie, "Leeds captain Kevin Sinfield endorses LBS's new account"), that counts on cap.
Similarly, I believe the employment of a player's partner also has salary cap impilications. That rule apparently changed after it transpired that a Mrs Renouf was the highest paid receptionist in the North West.'"
That's how I understand it too.
Re players wives - that is counted on the cap but clubs may still employ players wives either as an added benefit for players who have to move (their wife is guaranteed a job) or it can be better tax-wise for the player to have say £20k taxed at wife's tax rate rather than his own.
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| Quote Him="Him"If clubs deliberately withhold salary cap information in order to gain an advantage then that is fraud. In the same if you don't tell your insurance company pertinent information when making a claim.
The Aussie police investigated Melbourne after their shenanigans but due to the high profile nature and political pressure from both Melbourne's owners and their number 1 fan it wasn't taken any further.
Over here there's no such situation to hold the police back, they'd love it. In the same way the UKBA went after RL imports with a vengeance and HMRC went after the image rights etc.
Don't let your dislike of the salary cap get in the way here, not reporting this kind of information is very, very serious and I can't see many clubs wanting to take that risk, especially as it only takes 1 disgruntled person to blow the whistle and there aren't the number of quality players around in SL to take a club from average to the top without it being blatantly obvious they're over the salary cap.'" Insurance fraud is a specific offence. Lying isn't. Lying to gain an advantage through the SC would be no different to lying to gain an advantage through naming your 19 knowing there would be a change.
The SC holds no basis in the law. it is a rugby league rule, one which itself could very well be judged illegal (and as such, would not even be enforceable as a competition rule).
At worst there may be a claim for a breach of contract, but again, I don't think anyone is taking a case suing a party for not keeping to their contractual obligation to collude on bringing wages down.
As long as all payments are made paying the correct tax and NI, the government and police have literally no interest in investigating someone wages.
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| The simplest way would be to pay the wife or partner through another business. So for instance Caddick construction could pay Mrs Sinfield as much as they wanted. There is no legal obligation for Mrs Sinfield to disclose her earnings to the RFL and there is a legal obligation for Caddick Construction not to disclose that information and Mrs Sinfield would have a clean and cut case to sue Caddick Construction if they did disclose it to them without her permission.
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