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[quote:18jc6kzm]I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote:18jc6kzm]Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.[/quote:18jc6kzm] [quote="Jamie Jones-Buchanan":18jc6kzm]"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.[/quote:18jc6kzm]:1506.jpg



Quote: Saddened! "It's more a case of you need money to make money. Wasps bought half of a 34,000 capacity stadium that enabled them to have a hotel, casino, conferencing facilities, concert venue and restaurants. They must have paid an absolute fortune for that, because they would not only be purchasing half of the bricks and motar, but also a few years worth of revenues for those income streams as well. If they didn't exist pre-purchase they had to invest in them to set them up.

How many clubs in SL are actually sustainable businesses outside of the SL funding? I'd say probably only Leeds and Warrington currently. None of the other clubs would have access to the capital to fund that kind of setup (Bar Salford who are a shambolic organisation and would lose millions if they attempted such a venture). Warrington have facilities they do very well out of, but neither them or Leeds have room for a casino or hotel so would need to build them.'"


There is already a hotel at Headingley (the east stand of the cricket stadium) and it the club does very well out of it (both for hotel occupancy and for conferencing / weddings etc). However, Leeds' circumstances are somewhat different to the other clubs in SL.

The main motivation for Leeds to develop the cricket stadium with the hotel (until they sold it circa 200icon_cool.gif was to retain Headingley's Test venue status. One England test generates about as much in catering and hospitality revenue as a full season of RL (at least, that was the claim floating around). That makes the case for return on investment much more compelling.

Even without the revenue generated by Test cricket, I suspect that the conference and events market in Leeds is somewhat more buoyant that the one in Widnes or Wakefield.

Let's also not forget that there was more than a hint of opportunism from Wasps. At the time Wasps bought themselves into the Ricoh, it was in danger of becoming a huge white elephant; the stadium's primary tenant hadn't played there for more than 12 months and it was losing money hand over fist. We aren't dealing with a local council and a botched S106 here, we're talking about a loss-making venue whose owners were probably more than happy to get whatever they could.

That said, I do agree that we every club needs to be generating more revenue beyond TV and match day income.

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Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



I don't know anything about the Wasps deal save what I've read, but the comment that if all is as it appears to be, then the deal will have cost an arm and a leg is indisputably true. So their gates have initially gone up. So what? The main questions you would need to be able to answer are:
1. What does it cost to service the investment/borrowing? because those charges need to be paid before there is any surplus.
2. Who put up the money? Because if there is a profit at the end of the day then the "investors" will want it. Unless there is a billionaire who is happy to lose many millions a year, permanently, just cos he likes Wasps.

If there really is that much money to be made from casinos, hotels, Zumba nights or whatever at the Ricoh then how come no shrewd billionaires or other companies national or international were remotely interested prior to the Wasps deal? Yet there is, apparently, not only enough money to be made to service the acquisition finance and running costs, turn a healthy profit for investors, but also to make Wasps a wealthy rugby club out of presumably the small change.

I'm not remotely buying into this hype. It is all spin. I don't blame Wasps as a club for taking advantage of it but there are no lessons to be learned here.

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Presumably the leisure bond issue is a way of getting some or all of the cash back to those who funded the purchase ASAP. All it then does however is pass the servicing of the bonds on to the next generation of people in charge of the club, who are faced with making sufficient money to be able to pay the return to investors.

Course, there's a cynical view to be taken here. Leisure bonds don't - AFAIK - have any cover under the FSCS. So if you sink your money into one and Wasps are unable to pay a return on it, you've got no compensation in the way you would have if you'd kept that money in your bank account and your bank had gone bust. So a couple of years down the line what's to stop Wasps running themselves into the ground, liquidating, phoenixing under a different company structure/directors and the bond holders ending up with nothing?

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I'm tempted to say it shows you can polish turd. But that would be infantile & show my jealousy of yawnion crowds.

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[b:3lwchg41][size=100:3lwchg41]February 9th 2008. Harlequins Rugby League v Wigan Warriors; Attendance [color=#FF0000:3lwchg41]8,041[/color:3lwchg41] Entire 2015 Season over 11 games: Total Attendance[color=#FF0000:3lwchg41] 8,050[/color:3lwchg41]. PROGRESS[/size:3lwchg41][/b:3lwchg41]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73709.png



Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I don't know anything about the Wasps deal save what I've read, but the comment that if all is as it appears to be, then the deal will have cost an arm and a leg is indisputably true. So their gates have initially gone up. So what? The main questions you would need to be able to answer are
Hmm...where to begin?
First up, the borrowing. If there is actually any "borrowing" involved, rather than a Ken Davy/David Hughes type insane beneficiary situation, then it will be minimal, given the current interest rates in the EU. Secondly, as I have already alluded to, if it's a benefactor, then who cares? Benefactors will make decision that in the end are meant to make the clubs self sufficient.......WASPS buy a stadium (share of) and eventually the reliance on their benefactor is reduced......it's good business....the RFL bought your lease and how's that working out for you?????/ or them for that matter????
Then there's your comment about money to be made from the casino icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif this from someone who believed "pub boy and carpet mans" plans for the bulls including belinda carlisle concerts and the coral lounge for weddings was the answer d040.gif
Wasps have made a decent start at the new stadium,........they average 16k+ and they own a chunk of the action. They are now looking to raise more revenue through a funding issue......they are making progress......let's not allow your bitterness get in the way here......after all, your club owns nothing, owes everything and is in the 2nd tier....for at leat another year or so.

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Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I don't know anything about the Wasps deal save what I've read, but the comment that if all is as it appears to be, then the deal will have cost an arm and a leg is indisputably true. So their gates have initially gone up. So what? The main questions you would need to be able to answer are

The owner loaned Wasps £20million and will be getting half back from the bond issue, the rest going to pay off other loans and investment in the clubs academy etc. As for being 'hype and spin', they have sold out the 32,000 stadium for the game v Leicester Tigers next week (something CCFC couldn't do) including 2000 hospitality seats (they used to average 200 at Adams Park). Most sporting clubs would love that hype and spin'. As for what RL clubs can learn, if you're going to invest in a new/existing stadium, make sure it's a half-decent one like Langtree Park.

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