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| Quote Happy Hooker="Happy Hooker"So you say you're not blind yet and you also say the video shown from the "opposite" side was not conclusive ? Of course it wasn't, that's why we have various views and angles.
If as you say your not blind then you MUST have seen Halls finger put downward pressure on the ball, (from the one angle that mattered) and that the ball was flat on the ground when it did. ie TRY.
As has been mentioned here before, you can show a thousand pictures to try and disprove something, but only one is needed to show the truth.'"
In Lancashire speak Happy , that's known as wanting the cake and ha'penny.
Surely even you can see the anomaly you are advocating when you claim that ONLY your accepted angle can vindicate the outcome you desire?
To be conclusive the image that is total proof must be seen to be so from any clear and unobstructed view available. Maybe it's your eyes, or reasoning, that requires some testing also?
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| I think Sheens and Cameron Smith's comments are pretty telling. They don't say it's not a try based on downward pressure/Inglis perhaps grounding it/ball rising up etc.....for them they say it's a correct call simply because Hall didn't celebrate. No actual view/comment on the incident, just Hall's reaction, I think it shows they know deep down it was a try.
One Aussie news report I read claims Hall "climbed all over the back of Inglis" so even if the grounding was more clear cut then the Aussie VR would've found another way to rule it out with Hall probably penalised. Same report claims that when Bird tipped O'Loughlin over his shoulder and dumped him on his head/neck that it was O'Loughlin who somersaulted over Bird that caused that incident.
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International Star | 428 | Workington Town |
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Jul 2013 | 12 years | |
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| Quote melman="melman"In Lancashire speak Happy , that's known as wanting the cake and ha'penny.
Surely even you can see the anomaly you are advocating when you claim that ONLY your accepted angle can vindicate the outcome you desire?
To be conclusive the image that is total proof must be seen to be so from any clear and unobstructed view available. Maybe it's your eyes, or reasoning, that requires some testing also?'"
Nonsense. You can have a million different angles and views, and maybe non of them can show "inconclusive proof" If however just one angle shows "conclusive proof" then......................In Lancashire speak melman, The other angles mean Bugger'all.
Ask yourself just ONE question before you reply.
DID YOU SEE HALLS HAND TOUCH THE BALL THAT WAS ON THE GROUND IN ANY OF THE VIEWS ?
If the answer is yes then ALL the other "inconclusive" views are made null and void.
If the answer is No then I would suggest a visit to specksavers should be your priority tomorrow. 
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Club Coach | 1322 | Hull KR |
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| The Aussies have no shame in cheating. They were given so much field position on the back of 'nothing' penalties it was ridiculous. The very fact that they argued for 4 hours till they got their own way with an Aussie ref says it all. No class.
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International Star | 50 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Happy Hooker="Happy Hooker"Nonsense. You can have a million different angles and views, and maybe non of them can show "inconclusive proof" If however just one angle shows "conclusive proof" then......................In Lancashire speak melman, The other angles mean Bugger'all.
Ask yourself just ONE question before you reply.
DID YOU SEE HALLS HAND TOUCH THE BALL THAT WAS ON THE GROUND IN ANY OF THE VIEWS ?
If the answer is yes then ALL the other "inconclusive" views are made null and void.
If the answer is No then I would suggest a visit to specksavers should be your priority tomorrow.
'"
It is spelt SpeCsavers son. Sorry but if one aspect denies another there cannot be any conclusive decision arrived at. They call that common sense.
I see that you are belying your moniker and getting into an Unhappy state of mind over this and my attitude to it.
We have different opinions on the subject and somehow I do believe we will have to agree to differ on the subject.
I certainly have no chance of winning you around to my argument and vice versa.
Happy days son, don't let it upset you anymore.
We I hope can agree on one thing, that being, we both want England to be playing the Aussies again in two weeks time and the demand going out that there is a neutral set of officials in attendance.
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International Chairman | 28357 | Bradford Bulls |
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| The VR had to offer some sort of explanation and the best he could invent was the pure fabrication that the ball came up and hit Hall's finger whilst it was "on the rise".
There is not an Australian in the world who would privately not laugh at that as just plain ridiculous.
But, it amounts to a confirmation that the VR fully accepts Hall's finger did get down on the ball. There is NO image that shows that happening when the ball was "on the rise". There is a conclusive side-on image proving that this contact happened at a point where the ball was emphatically and indisputably on the deck.
The VR was under pressure to come up with something, anything, not to knock Australia out of the comp, and he did so. Now he has done so, the Aussies don;'t care, as they can quietly smile, and troll, and make the usual disingenuous comments for which they're famous.
I was firmly of the view that officials should be neutral NOT because I thought they'd cheat, but because the officials ought to be seen to be independent. In the event, and watching the ref ignoring Aussie headshots, ignoring a number of late hits on the kicker, ignoring Aussie offences (was it NIL pens against Aus in the second half? I.e. they did NOTHING wrong? At all?) and producing a string of highly dubious pens against England, the conclusion is either the ref deliberately favoured Australia, just like the VR did, or else the ref is an incompetent. We are told he was chosen because he is "the best" referee and Australia wanted "the best", so what does that leave?
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International Star | 428 | Workington Town |
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| Quote melman="melman"It is spelt SpeCsavers son. Sorry but if one aspect denies another there cannot be any conclusive decision arrived at. They call that common sense.
I see that you are belying your moniker and getting into an Unhappy state of mind over this and my attitude to it.
We have different opinions on the subject and somehow I do believe we will have to agree to differ on the subject.
I certainly have no chance of winning you around to my argument and vice versa.
'"
Jeez it's hard work this. Im not arguing over an opinion as they are like a55holes ie everyone has one.
This is more about plain facts. The question was DID you see Halls hand (or little finger to make it easier for you) touch the ball when the said ball was on the ground ? I accept that you can't see it from all angles but is/was there ANY angle where you did see this.
It's quite simple really you did or you didn't see. If you didn't then SpeCsavers will be expecting you.
It's nothing to do with one aspect denying the other the views where it isn't clear one way or another are just that .....Not clear views.
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| Quote Ferocious Aardvark="Ferocious Aardvark"The VR had to offer some sort of explanation and the best he could invent was the pure fabrication that the ball came up and hit Hall's finger whilst it was "on the rise".
There is not an Australian in the world who would privately not laugh at that as just plain ridiculous.
But, it amounts to a confirmation that the VR fully accepts Hall's finger did get down on the ball. There is NO image that shows that happening when the ball was "on the rise". There is a conclusive side-on image proving that this contact happened at a point where the ball was emphatically and indisputably on the deck.
The VR was under pressure to come up with something, anything, not to knock Australia out of the comp, and he did so. Now he has done so, the Aussies don;'t care, as they can quietly smile, and troll, and make the usual disingenuous comments for which they're famous.
I was firmly of the view that officials should be neutral NOT because I thought they'd cheat, but because the officials ought to be seen to be independent. In the event, and watching the ref ignoring Aussie headshots, ignoring a number of late hits on the kicker, ignoring Aussie offences (was it NIL pens against Aus in the second half? I.e. they did NOTHING wrong? At all?) and producing a string of highly dubious pens against England, the conclusion is either the ref deliberately favoured Australia, just like the VR did, or else the ref is an incompetent. We are told he was chosen because he is "the best" referee and Australia wanted "the best", so what does that leave?'"
Exactly. No proof whatsoever the ball was lifting off the ground to make Hall's finger bend up. That is such a ridiculous made up reason not to give it.
I really don't understand these 'NRL' lovers, McNamara haters, and other club haters who would rather still point blame at other areas of England's performance.
The one and only certainty of why we lost was because the VR decided to make up an excuse why a perfectly valid try should be disallowed. Everything else is noise and if's and buts and petty small
minded individuals.
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| The rules state it should have been given and whilst i'm no fan of the very end of someones little finger brushing the side of the ball being classed as 'downward pressure' rules are rules whether you like them or not. Morally it probably shouldn't be awarded but under the current laws it was a try, end of story. We got nothing from the officials in the second half although with the fact that we stopped doing what had been so successful in the first half we didn't help ourselves. Ask the more questions in the second we win that game anyway.
It shows that if we put it together for the full 80 then beating the Kiwis next week is more than do-able. The its quite possibly the Aussies again in the final and beating them there would be all the more sweet!
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| The only reason it's disallowed is that the Aussie refs knew they were hired by Australia specifically to protect them. If they then allow England to win, their careers in the NRL would be affected by it.
I'm 100% certain that that try would not have been given under any circumstances. Had Hall slammed it down with his palm, they would have said he was offside or that he fouled Inglis. Had there been nothing possibly wrong there they would have gone back and found a non-perfect play the ball and given it for that.
What annoys me most about it that we just take it. Where is the RFL kicking up a massive fuss about it? Where are they demanding answers and an explanation? Why are they not asking for officials to be stood down from international duty and refusing to play any further games without neutral referees? We'll never beat Australia, but only because we'll never be allowed to.
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| Quote Saddened!="Saddened!"The only reason it's disallowed is that the Aussie refs knew they were hired by Australia specifically to protect them. If they then allow England to win, their careers in the NRL would be affected by it.'"
God knows what would've happened if we scored a concrete fully undisputable try that even the Aussie refs couldn't find a reason to disallow that made it 16-16 and Widdop had a kick to knock Australia out. Widdop might as well have started talking to SL clubs straight after the final hooter if he landed the kick.
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