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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"Ignorance is no excuse or mitigation <snip>'"
I agree that it doesn't mitigate the unacceptable action of hitting a prone individual who indeed could have been unconscious and even if not, was not in a good place to defend himself.
However, it is a defence against the even greater charge of "knowing a man was unconscious and making the deliberate decision to hit him anyway" which would appear to be the charge that some people here would make (and incidentally, if true as charged would be the worst thing I at least have ever seen on a rugby field and worthy of a lifetime ban).
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| Quote RLBandit="RLBandit"I agree that it doesn't mitigate the unacceptable action of hitting a prone individual who indeed could have been unconscious and even if not, was not in a good place to defend himself.
However, it is a defence against the even greater charge of "knowing a man was unconscious and making the deliberate decision to hit him anyway" which would appear to be the charge that some people here would make (and incidentally, if true as charged would be the worst thing I at least have ever seen on a rugby field and worthy of a lifetime ban).'"
It's not really any worse to hit a man you knew was unconscious compared to hitting a man you were recklessly indifferent to whether he was conscious or not.
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"It's not really any worse to hit a man you knew was unconscious compared to hitting a man you were recklessly indifferent to whether he was conscious or not.'"
You're welcome to hold that view, provided you agree that it applies to anyone who ever throws a punch in a pile-on on the floor.
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| Quote craigizzard="craigizzard"Throw the book at him. Then, when he's unconscious, throw it again.'"

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| Quote RLBandit="RLBandit"You're welcome to hold that view, provided you agree that it applies to anyone who ever throws a punch in a pile-on on the floor.'"
Only if you weren't aware of what reckless indifference was.
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| Quote RLBandit="RLBandit"I don't read many people 'defending' Ben Flower's actions. There's a difference between defending his actions (which would be ridiculous) and merely suggesting that some of the reactions are foaming-at-the-mouth over the top. Watching a slow-motion replay is massively misleading here. There are two issues - the first concerns hitting a man on the floor. This is very bad. It's wrong. It deserves a long ban. BUT...let's not pretend it's the first time it's ever happened and is the worst incident ever seen in Rugby League, etc. etc. The second is hitting a man who you believe to be unconscious. That is beyond very bad, and you couldn't really argue with a lifetime ban. HOWEVER, nothing in *real time* leads me to believe that Flower *knew* he was hitting an unconscious man. You may disagree, fine, but don't base your guess about Flower's state of mind and decision making process by watching a slow motion replay.'"
Which is all wholly irrelevant. Just because something may / may not have happened before doesn't make it right. Also, if he did not know he was hitting someone lying on the ground then he was clearly not in control and therefore a very dangerous individual. What he did was outrageous and the police are having to look into it because of the number of complaints they received. The Australian RL press suggest he should be jailed. The Times today gives examples of sportsmen jailed / given suspended sentences for their action. This seems right up there / worse than those. He'll be lucky to escape a sentence in my opinion.
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| Grade F charge for Flower [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5848[/url and a B for Hohaia [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5847[/url
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| Its sounds as though Greater Manchester Police are involved are in liason with the Saints Club and RFL.
Saints are holding back to see how the RFL are going to conclude the incident, so I would imagine RFL will have to be careful that it doesn,t go outside the sport into a civil assault matter.
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| Quote childofthenorthern="childofthenorthern"Grade F charge for Flower [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5848[/url and a B for Hohaia [urlhttp://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/disciplinary/item?5847[/url'"
First ever Grade F in Rugby League at this level?
The RFL have clearly defined this above "violent and aggressive striking" and gone into "Other striking offences". They have freed themselves up of the 8 match limit. Flower could be gone for the entire season.
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| Good news. Good to see them take this seriously. It's impact on the sport's image has been massively negative and it needs to be treated with a stern response, which an F will do. A lot of the NRL-based people commenting on it are suggesting it needs to be a season. Can't see the RFL going that far, but he'd have no room to argue.
The Hohaia charge is irrelevant really. That kind of thing happens all the time and there would have been no cards handed out if it had ended there, had Flower not reacted, just a penalty to Wigan.
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| I suspect Saints and the RFL will want it to be dealt with outside of the police / courts if they have a choice. So, as has been said I think they will act harshly / in draconian fashion. If it did go to court BF has been quoted as saying there is no defence for his actions or words to that effect. That would make it difficult for him.
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