God help us.

Thanks for that quality input to the debate there.

Would Sinfield be as effective at club level if he hadn't been the captain of a team full of his best mates for 10 + years ?
he has the luxury at Leeds of being part of an untouchable group of players who are pretty good at peaking at the right time.
If he was at say Salford would the media rave about him as much or would he just look like an average player in an average team?
I've watched Sinfield's career from the start and rarely in all that time have i ever watched him and thought " wow that was brilliant" or other gobsmacked phrase to describe what he's done on the field. I have many times for Brough, Tomkins, Chase etc, even McGuire in the past - like i said he's a good leader and captain of his mates but no exciting genius with ball in hand.

You've watched his career from the start? Really because the rest of your post implys that you've hardly watched him at all.

BINGO!!

So Leeds' and SL's most succesful captain has just been a bit lucky cos he's played with his mates.

Really?

Sinfield probably is the best organiser but Brough also organises the team around. He just has more to his game which is what you need IMO

The problem is Sinfield needs to do more than just organise if he is to play at 6. Your stand off is meant to create.

I don't think they would be a debate if Sinfield was captain and was put at 13. The problem is that he is been put into the most Important position which he doesn't have the skills to do at test level IMO.

What he has won at club level is irrelevant IMO, Ian Kirkes won plenty of medals. For me it's about choosing the best players.

He hasn't been put in any position yet, as far as I'm aware the team for the WC is quite a long way off being announced



RE Ian Kirk, take him out of the rhinos team and they would still have won all the titles, could you really say the same about Sinfield?

Just take last seasons run to the grand final for example, he was the best player on the pitch in every one of those games.

I think the nail was hit in a previous post.
sinfield is a very good leader and organiser but not a creative spark compared to other half backs.
brough is a very good creator who has that spark of genius in him.

they are both good at what they do, but at this moment in time,regardless of how many medals sinfield has won along with his team mates, brough is the all round better half back IMO

Not in that context no , but yes in a way because he has been able to carry on doing what he does at Leeds and have the team built around his leadership, if he had left Leeds he would have had to fit into another team with unfamiliar players around him. At Leeds he's had other players over the years to do the creating while he leads....What Sinfield does at Leeds is probably something he can only do at Leeds because of what they have built there !.

He is, when he wants to be, which doesn't appear to be all of the time, or consistently which is why at 30 he's had five different clubs and only a CC club medal to his name (in a game where Sinfield won the the Lance Todd Trophy funnily enough).

Talking of that Sinfield has won MOM in 2 tests against NZ, 2 SL grand finals, 1 CC Final, 1 WCC.

Look, for all of that if Brough keeps his form up and is playung well at the end of the season I would have no qualms in having him in the squad or side, perhaps a 6 & 7 of Sinfield and Brough would work?

But this while hyperbole about Brough being some kind of saviour for the England squad is getting a bit silly IMO, the team and squad hasn't been announced yet, he may well be in there, who knows!