Bill Sonny wrote:we are far too confident, things have come a long way since Wigan and Bradford played in the middlesex 7s, I think any RL league all-star 7 teams playing a specialised rugby union 7's team would get absolutely bummed hard

-------

I don't think people have realised how much Sevens has progressed and how specialised it now is. Most nations have truly professional outfits that take their Sevens teams very seriously.

These aren't the slow, non-athletic bumbling fools that Wigan and Bradford beat all those years ago.

You'd have to have something special, like Tomkins, to get in. Now if we were talking about Australia, then I think they have the League crop to really make a case for practically displacing their current Sevens team. But we don't have the same talent, and we have a better Sevens team (imo, I guess)

Quote Lockyer4President!="Lockyer4President!"A QLD school who had never trained with RU rules before won the national sevens comp last year... www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... -reyz.html Aus Union players are a joke but the Wallabies are still the second best team in the world. Says it all really.'" Date of article April 1st

Quote Lockyer4President!="Lockyer4President!"A QLD school who had never trained with RU rules before won the national sevens comp last year... www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... -reyz.html Aus Union players are a joke but the Wallabies are still the second best team in the world. Says it all really.'" Date of article April 1st

Sorry, but all this fawning over Union 7s is pathetic.

Yes, RU has moved on since Wigan humiliated English RU back in 1996. Their players are bigger, more powerful, and more athletic than they were. But so are RL players. Today's RL lads are more solidly muscled, faster and more powerful than even that Wigan side, and I dare say still fitter than RU lads purely due to the more demanding and involving nature of RL and the conditioning required to cope with those demands.

There are differences between the codes. RU players tend to carry more muscle to allow them to deal with the 20+ stone, 6'10" forwards and the nature of rucks & mauls, whereas RL lads are built for explosive power and and pace, and tend to be much more lean. And if you've ever seen a RU player at RL, or vice versa, you'll know there are huge differences in the very way they take the ball in and work the impact. RU players look for the floor, RL players look to bust the tackle or find the offload. It's not as simple as "RU players have moved on, they're better".

I watch RU 7s quite regularly and I see nothing outstanding. Good athletes, yes, but nothing all that amazing, and nothing you don't see in a decent game of League: broken field running, stepping defenders, running lines, working the defence to build overlaps. Some of the skills on show are great, some are terrible.

We all know Tomkins would do well. But don't disregard the other outstanding athletes we have within our ranks. They might be several pounds lighter man for man, but in 7s your agility, fitness, explosive pace and ability to work a gap is what matters - and man for man RL lads have far more skill and knowledge to do that.

Quote Saint77777="Saint77777"Nearly 3 years ago you mean'" Keebra Park have won the QLD and the Aus sevens comp every year since then... Like I said, Union players are a joke. www.redsrugby.com.au/NewsEvents/ ... fault.aspx

Quote Saint77777="Saint77777"Nearly 3 years ago you mean'" Keebra Park have won the QLD and the Aus sevens comp every year since then... Like I said, Union players are a joke. www.redsrugby.com.au/NewsEvents/ ... fault.aspx

Keebra Park have turned out some fantastic NRL players and even help build last years Super Leagues MOS Mr Chase

Spot on. Think of an English League 7's team of:
1. Hock
2. Roby
3. Burgess
4. Burrow
5. Tomkins
6. Watkins
7. Hardaker

8. Crabtree
9. Robinson
10. JJB
11. Atkins
12. Charnley

I reckon they'd do pretty well.

However I find 7's even more boring than the 15-a-side version. It's just quick players running through huge gaps.

It's not fawning, it's realism. The days of Rugby League in England having a monopoly on athleticism is long gone.

If I was fawning over Union 7's I wouldn't have just said that the Australian League players could displace the entire current Sevens team, would I? This is not fawning, if anything it's an observation on the mediocre crop of players in English Rugby League.



I'm talking specifically about Sevens. The 15 man game has nothing to do with Sevens. 20 stone, 6'10 forwards have NOTHING to do with the Sevens game.

I know full well that in the 15 man game Rugby players submit in the tackle, looking for a quick play the ball. Rugby Union 15's is not Sevens, however.

I'm not sure who you're quoting either. I can't recall saying "Ru players have moved on, they're better". Where did I say that?



Let's keep in mind that English league is wholly mediocre. Rugby 15's has a much better crop to choose from.



What outstanding athletes!?



Some of you are off your rocker. Just because Rugby 15's puts little emphasis on athleticism and core skills doesn't mean there aren't players in the game with plenty of it. If I made a dream Sevens team of the best of English players, 3 at best would come from League.

English League players are decidedly ordinary. There are ample English Rugby players who are faster, stronger, bigger and more explosive than anything in League. Forget fitness, that comes with training.

Look how many Aussie League players have been picked up by their Rugby Sevens system. The fact that English Sevens aren't interested in our players, by comparison, should speak volumes. We don't have the same talent.

The argument of skill is the only one of relevance, but that's better answered by, if anything, bringing in a Rugby League coach. English Sevens would be better off improving the skills of the athletic players available, than taking on the mediocre athletes in English league on account of their better skills. Skills can be taught, knowledge can be learned, athleticism cannot.

.........

And people like Him don't even know what they're talking about fullstop. Burgess, Hock, Crabtree? Are you people literally MAD? What in the hell could Burgess, Hock or Crabtree add to a SEVENS team. Who on this planet we call earth would ever think Crabtree or Hock on a sevens team is a good idea. Are you lot serious. You're all on one!

That rules out most English league players then. Would be hard pressed to find a League player from England with any pace, wouldn't you.

Mediocre? I can see this will be a pretty pointless argument to start with: you're clearly down on English RL if you think all of our players are mediocre.

I fully understand some RU players are just as athletic as RL players. The argument over who is more athletic is meanignless - both codes demand different conditioning.

Anyway, Andy Farrell, an ageing RL loose/second row with bust knees who'd been filling in at prop walked into the England team at centre only a few years ago and he still had the pace, power and agility to mix it at international level. Where were all their incredible athletes then?


I didn't say 20-stone players were playing 7s, did I? But the fact is they aren't generally trained or used to looking to bust tackles, as RL lads are. Yes, 7s players look for more offloads, but surely RL players who are conditioned for and have spent their careers looking to bust tackles and get the ball away would be an asset.

Anyway, these fantastic 7s players you're creaming over are still just rugby players - they've come from a club and they'll be going back to a club. They join the 7s circuit for a little while and that's yer lot. They don't spend all their careers specialising in 7s and conditioning themselves for 2 x 7 minutes of play.


Does it? You've eliminated their forwards in one fell swoop so you're down to the backs. Then take away the Aussies, Kiwis, Sarf Afrikaans, French, Argentinians, Tongans, etc and you eventually have a few English lads to choose from. Is it any wonder the 7s squad often dips into lower-level RU tiers for players?

I'd back almost any SL centre against their RU opposites to be able to create a gap, show & go, draw & pass, run a line, etc. Our fastest wingers can match RU's fastest for pace. Our forwards don't have the mass but they have the power and more pace. Half-back play in the 2 codes is vastly different but I'd back ours for superior handling skills.

And I've yet to see a RU player dodge and weave like Burrow, run and beat men like Tomkins, finish like Hall, accelerate like Atkins, and they rarely bust tackles as RL lads are trained to do.


And there we go. Disregarding the incredible fitness and power of SL players. Your argument loses massive credibility by displaying a blatant ignorance of the physical condition of most top level RL players.

There may be RU lads who are stronger and bigger - but that's for a reason. Ask yourself why there aren't dozens of 6'10" 20+ stone lads in RL?? Why RL lads tend to be much more lean and not as tall?? The simple answer is the sheer speed and intensity of RL and lack of meaningful scrums, rucks/mauls and line-outs demands different conditioning. Bigger is better for RU 15s, not necessarily for RU 7s, or for RL for that matter - and didn't you say we're concerned only with 7s, where size can be a disadvantage? And there may be fast RU players, but there are also fast RL players - or do you for some reason believe RU is full of Olympic standard sprinters?

And as for skill - again, man for man I'd back an RL player. And you should try asking top-level RU players, who have nothing but admiration for RL lads. When RL & RU have mixed sessions it normally goes something like "we were amazed how much smaller the RL lads were, how lean they are and that there aren't really any giants like in RU, but their fitness is outstanding, they're as powerful and pacey as anyone and have outstanding skills".


A player like Hock would be devastating at 7s. I'm not sure whether you think he's not fit enough, fast enough, agile enough or weak in defence? Care to enlighten us?

Hock maybe, but he doesn't turn that great and isn't fast enough IMO, 7s wouldn't suit his style anyway. Crabtree and Burgess no. Willie Manu would be a good shout, a few years back he'd rip up 7s, also think Briscoe with his strength. Someone previously mentioned Yeaman no chance as he's a greedy fo0ker and can't pass for $h1t.
A few from these

Burrow
Tomkins
Watkins
Briscoe
Manu
Roby
Langley
Ablett
Charnley
Bateman
Broughton
Myler

Oh and there's some rare footage on Utube "7s Rugby League at Odsal Stadium 1939" back when it was something

Yeah. I agree.

Regards
Jones-Bishop, Watkins, Hall, Hardaker, Broughton, Charnley, Dixon, Riley, Briscoe, Tomkins.

You need some bigger guys in 7's for some rucking and scrummaging, that's why I picked some big guys like Hock & Crabtree who are also both pretty fit and both explosive runners. You do realise a game is only 14mins long don't you? And that you have 3 subs to use? I'm sure Hock & Crabtree could manage a whole 7 minutes of rugby 7's without collapsing in a heap.