Quote Ferocious Aardvark="Ferocious Aardvark":CRAZY: This annual soulsearch has to be both the most pointless and most irritating thread.'" WTF are you on about? Someone asked the figures sold and so I told them. To back the case up you only have to look at some of the desperate articles printed in local press such as www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/new ... ner_Moran/ I mean come on. Translation = get off your backsides

Quote Ferocious Aardvark="Ferocious Aardvark":CRAZY: This annual soulsearch has to be both the most pointless and most irritating thread.'" WTF are you on about? Someone asked the figures sold and so I told them. To back the case up you only have to look at some of the desperate articles printed in local press such as www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/new ... ner_Moran/ I mean come on. Translation = get off your backsides

Which if you'd stuck to that would be fine. Did I comment on that? Er, no. Did I in fact comment on your doomsayer forecast that:
" [icould be a really poor one crowd wise unfortunately[/i"

Er, yes. WTF I'm on about is doomsayers like you predicting a dire attendance at the CCF when as in all previous years, it'll be fine. And whether it is or it isn't ...
"[iI mean come on. Translation = get off your backsides[/i"
... chiding people to attempt to force numbers up out of a sense of shame or duty is as embarrassing as it is pointless. Not a single paying speccy ever changed their mind to go to a match as a result of a jolly good ticking off.

I haven't a clue what you're referring to as far as doom mongers or regular naysayers go because I simply don't read it half the time, especially when it comes to cup crowds.
Simply put, for two traditionally well supported clubs, barring a late mad rush it simply will be a poor poor crowd this year. period. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, nor will I complain about it, I was just stating what will almost certainly be a fact.

Some people are realy touchy! It's like North Korea on here. Kim Jong Aardvark.

Maybe if enough people discuss poor attendances the people that run the game might sit up and have a look at the problem. They may decide to act, they may not. SL is the priority now. 20 years ago the final attracted 90,000's. Now it doesn't. Shoot us for asking why.

Well for a start Wembley's capacity is 90,000.
The last 90k+ crowd was 1988, the crowds since going back to Wembley are similar to those crowds after 1988.
There have only been 16 crowds of 90k+ in the history of the Challenge Cup, out of a total of 116 Finals (incl replays)
We now have a Grand Final that draws 60k+ each year, combined with a Cup Final that is generally around the 75k mark I don't think it's too much of an issue.

There is an issue when the sports "showpiece" is not a sell-out.

That's the crux of the matter. It is no longer the showpiece. It's not a major disaster but neither is it one that we should be afraid to discuss without being shouted down by the usual forum police.

Perhaps it is to the game's credit that there IS something else that is quickly growing into the showpiece. I also think that the death of the social club/pub scene has impacted general sales. We used to be part of "The Wheatsheaf's" annual sharabang to Wembley. The pub is no more and we've all moved on. Contrast this to RU where the social gathering at a match is just as important as the match itself. They're never left with unsold tickets for their friendlies, let alone their showpiece events.

But it's rarely sold-out in it's history. Of course I'd like it to be a sell-out but I just don't see it as a big deal, the far, far more important issue in my view is the relatively poor international attendances and the poor media profile we have.

I think you're right there, there are fewer "RL pubs" or "RL areas", the support is more spread out so there are fewer pubs or organisations or groups who travel down together. The hardcore will probably still go but the few who weren't that bothered but would have gone as part of the group probably don't go now.
Also, I think fewer amateur clubs take groups down, or if they do they take less people than they used to. In fact amateur clubs have become very insular in many parts, where the only rugby they're really interested in is amateur rugby.

Like you say, when you compare it to Union they still get the amateur clubs taking a decent sized group down to Twickers and will turn out for "nothing" games as well as major ones. Partly I think that's down to money. I know it's a stereotype that Union fans have more money than League fans but it's certainly been true in my experience. Each time I've been to a Union club while I was playing for York RU there have been BMW's, Merc's, Audi's and Range Rover's in the car park. When going to a League club there are generally Peugeot's, Ford's and VW's. And when you get talking to people they are generally in wealthier jobs than the League lot (half of whom seem to have been in prison at some point!). So I'm sure that money plays its part, plus going to Twickers for a day out has become fashionable, whereas going to Wembley for RL is "just for fans".

I think you're right there, there are fewer "RL pubs" or "RL areas", the support is more spread out so there are fewer pubs or organisations or groups who travel down together. The hardcore will probably still go but the few who weren't that bothered but would have gone as part of the group probably don't go now.
Also, I think fewer amateur clubs take groups down, or if they do they take less people than they used to. In fact amateur clubs have become very insular in many parts, where the only rugby they're really interested in is amateur rugby.

Like you say, when you compare it to Union they still get the amateur clubs taking a decent sized group down to Twickers and will turn out for "nothing" games as well as major ones. Partly I think that's down to money. I know it's a stereotype that Union fans have more money than League fans but it's certainly been true in my experience. Each time I've been to a Union club while I was playing for York RU there have been BMW's, Merc's, Audi's and Range Rover's in the car park. When going to a League club there are generally Peugeot's, Ford's and VW's. And when you get talking to people they are generally in wealthier jobs than the League lot (half of whom seem to have been in prison at some point!). So I'm sure that money plays its part, plus going to Twickers for a day out has become fashionable, whereas going to Wembley for RL is "just for fans".'"

people keep going on about it not being a sellout if there arent 90k in attendance. Thing to remember is the club wembley seats are included in the 90k capacity and there won't be many of those, primarily football supporting seat holders in attendance for a RL final, but as there entitled to attend their seats aren't available to anyone else. Not sure how many seats are in the middle tier but I'd guess at 10-15k minimum, which needs knocking off the stadium capacity when your talking about whether game is a sellout or not.