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FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Wires v Wigan |
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| What was Tomkins supposed to do when Wigans forwards were giving the ball away each time they had it?
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| Quote: Asgardian13 "Some good sense here and shows that even Sam Tomkins has his shortcomings. He is still far and away the most dangerous broken-field runner in the game, though, the sort of bloke who might go 75 minutes doing sod-all and then score two tries in the last five. That's why he commanded such attention from the Wire defense.'"
He's like any fullback really in that his effectiveness it seriously diminished behind a beaten pack. A good defence will also make it harder for him to stand out because when playing at fullback he has to rely an awful lot on other players to play well and combine before he's brought into play. It has always been the drawback of playing our most dangerous attacking threat at fullback.
Playing an unfit Brett Finch made things so much more difficult. While Shaun Wane said he didn't have any option but to play him (with Powell injured) clearly there was the option of playing Tomkins at stand off and Jack Murphy at fullback. Nothing would have been lost from not having Finch because he could barely put a pass in the right place and while some attacking threat goes with Murphy at fullback he actually also provides a safer pair of hands.
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "There was hardly any opportunity for him to inject himself into the game. Wigan struggled to get the ball wide throughout the game because the forwards had an absolute mare. The Wire pack was just completely dominant down the middle.
Shaun Wane did make a massive mistake in selecting Prescott who couldn't possibly be match fit (and showed that he definitely wasn't) and also playing Hansen who wasn't fit enough. If he thought Wigan could afford to carry two unfit players in the pack against the strongest pack in the league then he's very naive. Wire were always more likely to win the forward battle but Wane made it basically a certainty with his team selection.
Tomkins has little chance of getting involved when the team just can't get the ball wide and put together attacking moves. Hock was also starved of the ball because Finch was completely misfiring and the team just couldn't dominate enough to put any moves together. Both Tomkins and Hock had little opportunity to get involved because the team was trying to keep its shape but completely failing to do what was necessary to put any sort of move together.
He could have run from dummy half more but why would he? He would have hit a brick wall. Only strong runs would have made any difference.
One criticism certainly is fair though, and that's criticising his unwillingness to return kicks. The fact that he catches and then passes to Charnley just does exactly what defences want him to do. It completes removes any sort of threat that Wigan might have from returning kicks and it's about time Tomkins took the line on himself.'"
That is why I dont think Tomkins is MoS, he doesnt yet take responsibility for a game.
Finch has been outstanding for Wigan this season imo, he controls the game very very well, and when Lueluai is playing Finch has a bit more time to create space which Tomkins is the best player in SL at taking advantage of. I dont think it is just coincidence that Tomkins has looked poor in games where Finch hasnt fired, which is in games where Lueluai hasnt played.
They work very well as a three, but when O'loughlin, and now Smith has come in to replace Lueluai teams have focused on shutting down Finch which has allowed packs to get on top of them, with less space for Tomkins who is outstanding in broken field and when running wide against stretched defenses.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "That is why I dont think Tomkins is MoS, he doesnt yet take responsibility for a game.
Finch has been outstanding for Wigan this season imo, he controls the game very very well, and when Lueluai is playing Finch has a bit more time to create space which Tomkins is the best player in SL at taking advantage of. I dont think it is just coincidence that Tomkins has looked poor in games where Finch hasnt fired, which is in games where Lueluai hasnt played.
They work very well as a three, but when O'loughlin, and now Smith has come in to replace Lueluai teams have focused on shutting down Finch which has allowed packs to get on top of them, with less space for Tomkins who is outstanding in broken field and when running wide against stretched defenses.'"
I think it's always much harder for a fullback to take responsibility for a game. Even the best fullbacks are largely dependent on the ability of other players around them. Of course all of the best fullbacks are in the NRL where even the worst teams have enough talented players to allow their fullbacks to get into the game. If Wigan had Billy Slater in the side it still wouldn't have made any difference in that game. The entire team failed, except for the two wingers, who showed more bottle than all of the forwards put together, especially Thornley who coped well with the aerial threat of Monaghan.
I agree though that Tomkins shouldn't be man of steel. He's had quite a few games where he's just appeared to sit back and also just doesn't stand out enough in big games.
The possible candidates from Wigan should be Finch, Hock and O'Loughlin. O'Loughlin would be ruled out because he's missed games with injury and had a fairly unsuccessful stint in the halves, but when fully fit and at loose forward he's been outstanding yet again. Hock wouldn't win anyway as it would be too controversial.
For me it should be Finch as the current favourite.
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36332_1309197819.png Wigan Warriors RLFC.
Ancient and Loyal.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36332.png |
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| Sam never takes kick returns back, its also either winger who runs it back in the hope we can get a quick play the ball were he is then at his most dangerous - so saying he couldnt be bothered as he wasnt returning kicks is false as he doesnt take them back against bottom of the league.
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| The funniest part was seeing the Wigan 'ultras' fighting amongst themselves!
Brings back memories of that infamous McDonalds video.
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Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wigan |
20 |
523 |
264 |
259 |
32 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Hull KR |
20 |
503 |
259 |
244 |
30 |
Warrington |
20 |
502 |
267 |
235 |
28 |
St.Helens |
21 |
518 |
278 |
240 |
26 |
Salford |
21 |
393 |
399 |
-6 |
26 |
Catalans |
20 |
376 |
286 |
90 |
24 |
|
Leeds |
20 |
371 |
364 |
7 |
20 |
Leigh |
20 |
398 |
314 |
84 |
19 |
Huddersfield |
20 |
350 |
453 |
-103 |
14 |
Castleford |
20 |
336 |
523 |
-187 |
13 |
Hull FC |
20 |
274 |
612 |
-338 |
6 |
LondonB |
20 |
210 |
735 |
-525 |
4 |
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wakefield |
18 |
626 |
222 |
404 |
34 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Sheffield |
18 |
510 |
303 |
207 |
26 |
Toulouse |
17 |
516 |
224 |
292 |
25 |
Widnes |
18 |
434 |
319 |
115 |
23 |
Bradford |
18 |
421 |
321 |
100 |
22 |
Featherstone |
18 |
464 |
375 |
89 |
18 |
|
Doncaster |
18 |
338 |
432 |
-94 |
17 |
York |
19 |
446 |
383 |
63 |
16 |
Batley |
18 |
300 |
390 |
-90 |
16 |
Halifax |
18 |
356 |
477 |
-121 |
14 |
Barrow |
17 |
279 |
482 |
-203 |
13 |
Swinton |
18 |
346 |
470 |
-124 |
12 |
Whitehaven |
18 |
348 |
580 |
-232 |
12 |
Dewsbury |
19 |
240 |
602 |
-362 |
2 |
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