FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Deliberate Knock On
27 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman353No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2015Apr 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quins were penalised for a deliberate knock last year at Headingley - in about the 79th minute when they were getting pasted anyway - incredibly harsh by the ref to give it at any time but that was just rubbing salt into the wound.

The last deliberate forward pass I saw penalised was in the 1992 World Cup final (technically the receiver was in an offside position when the pass was given).

So both rules have existed but they are as rare as the legendary voluntary tackle!

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman651
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Jan 2022LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



I know the forum rules frown in links but I think here it helps...

www.therfl.co.uk/a_guide_to_the_ ... icial_laws


Laws state:-
"Once play has started any player who is on side or not out of play can run with the ball kick it in any direction and throw or knock it in any direction other than towards his opponents’ dead ball line" which is a catch all clause..

1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.

2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed. Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.

3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.

1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind him but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.

A forward pass in a passing movement is invariably caused by misjudgment and is rarely a deliberate offence. Play is restarted with a scrum after an accidental infringement.

If the Referee is of the opinion that a player in giving a forward pass must have been well aware that the catcher was in front of him then the referee is justified in ruling that the ball has been deliberately thrown forward.

If the ball is passed correctly but bounces forward or is blown forward by the wind, there is no infringement and play should continue. (This one amazed me)

There are a few remnants that need tidying...voluntary tackle, deliberate forward pass, and not stopping the clock after tries/for penalties but the laws book is very good!


!!!!!!!!
I know the forum rules frown in links but I think here it helps...

www.therfl.co.uk/a_guide_to_the_ ... icial_laws


Laws state:-
"Once play has started any player who is on side or not out of play can run with the ball kick it in any direction and throw or knock it in any direction other than towards his opponents’ dead ball line" which is a catch all clause..

1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.

2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed. Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.

3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.

1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind him but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.

A forward pass in a passing movement is invariably caused by misjudgment and is rarely a deliberate offence. Play is restarted with a scrum after an accidental infringement.

If the Referee is of the opinion that a player in giving a forward pass must have been well aware that the catcher was in front of him then the referee is justified in ruling that the ball has been deliberately thrown forward.

If the ball is passed correctly but bounces forward or is blown forward by the wind, there is no infringement and play should continue. (This one amazed me)

There are a few remnants that need tidying...voluntary tackle, deliberate forward pass, and not stopping the clock after tries/for penalties but the laws book is very good!


!!!!!!!!


RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2024Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Thoth "The rules do state a penalty will be given for a deliberate knock-on

"A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on"

penalise is defined as

"is to award a penalty kick against an offending player"

Awarding a scrum is just a means of restarting play, if a player following the 6th PTB kicks the ball outide his 20m and the ball goes out of play on 30 metres from the opponents try-line, would that player be said to be penalised? Because the opposition would be given the feed at the scrum.


The situation is clear deliberate knock-on and deliberate forward pass rules should be wiped from the rule book. The former was first introduced over 100 years ago.'"


I suggest you read my post again as you aren't saying anything different. What I did say was that in most cases the officials would assume that the player was making an attempt to catch the ball and not deliberately knocking it to ground. As I said, if the player deliberately knocks on - including where the ball never actually hits the ground - then yes it is a penalty.

There is no reason why the rules should be removed. There are some cases where they should be applied, though. Quite regularly we do see what I would say are deliberate forward passes. But "deliberate" is as defined in the laws, and is a ref's judgment call.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2024Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Dave Lister "Not quite the same, but what happens if an attacking player decides to throw the ball over the defensive line, and regain it himself on the other side, without it touching any defenders? Is that allowed?'"


No. That's a deliberate forward pass, because it is a throw towards the opponents' dead ball line, and done intentionally. The offence is committed as soon as the ball leaves the hand i.e. being deliberately thrown forward so whether you intend to catch it yourself, or someone else to, is beside the point.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2464No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 201015 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2011Jul 2011LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



If you want to see a deliberate 'forward pass' visit that site where you can watch videos that for some unknown reason we must never mention and type in "Brian O'Driscoll moment of genius "

Fantastic stuff.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner10000No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200421 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2020Nov 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Thoth "As joetwizzy says rule exists to counter defending players deciding to knock-on deliberately instead of intercepting a pass by catching the ball.

Saddened I can see your point but this would have been extremely dangerous to do especially before limited tackles were brought in given turnover ball often relults in line breaks or overlaps.

I thought this rule was brought in a very long time ago (as in the early part of the 20th century), but rarely seems to be penalised.'"

Could it not be argued that a player is trying to intercept rather than knock the ball out of the way in a pass?

I think it's more to do with the old scrums.

27 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint
27 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Durham Giant , TimperleySaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


2.90087890625:10
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
227
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
540
Recent
Fixtures
northernblok
17
Recent
Film game
Boss Hog
5824
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2625
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
38s
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63288
47s
Fixtures
northernblok
17
1m
How many games will we win
18th Man
52
1m
Rumours and signings v9
apollosghost
28911
1m
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
2m
2025 Shirt
Azul
24
3m
Film game
Boss Hog
5824
3m
Pre Season - 2025
Hasbag
202
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40822
7m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
LeythIg
7
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
7
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Shifty Cat
47
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M +11,435 ↑2280,15614,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R1
18:00
Toulouse
v
Widnes
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
       Championship 2025-R1
15:00
Bradford
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Doncaster
15:00
Oldham
v
York
15:00
Sheffield
v
Halifax
15:00
Barrow
v
Hunslet
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
       League One 2025-R1
15:00
Cornwall
v
Workington
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Crusaders
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
227
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
540
Recent
Fixtures
northernblok
17
Recent
Film game
Boss Hog
5824
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2625
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
38s
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63288
47s
Fixtures
northernblok
17
1m
How many games will we win
18th Man
52
1m
Rumours and signings v9
apollosghost
28911
1m
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
2m
2025 Shirt
Azul
24
3m
Film game
Boss Hog
5824
3m
Pre Season - 2025
Hasbag
202
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40822
7m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
LeythIg
7
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
7
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Shifty Cat
47
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!