O'loughlin went missing? yet made the most tackles out of anybody on the pitch and gave a couple of great passes. you need to watch the game mate, understand the J tomkins rating because of time on the pitch but he gavethe pass to shenton which sent him off. Goulding wasn't out of his depth, he made a heck of a lot of meters for a winger without making breaks. Robinson was also better than you suggest.
Roby had a poor first half but much better second and thought westwood was really good when he came on.
But still, i don't see what what O'loughlin has to do for peopel to rate him.

Oh wait i've only just noticed the rating you gave Graham, making your whole post no longer valid.

Definitely. From a lot of comments, I was expecting to shake my head at Widdops 2nd half in particular. They guy did just fine in his Kiwi initiation. That was a huge game for him, I can't consider it a "bad" game by any measure. If this and the France game is what he's provided at 21, then compared to his last few predecessors, he's a keeper unless playing Sam Tomkins there.

Next week's team:

Tomkins

Pryce
Gleeson
Bridge
Hall

Maguire
Eastmond

Graham
Sinfield
Peacock
Burgess
Ellis
O'Loughlin

Roby
Westwood
Morley
Crabtree

Good team that. And then I woke up.

Sorry Hudds fans, but the only real changes I'd make are Griffin and Brown. On the other hand, I'd replace them with Crabtree and Robinson, with Lunt coming onto the bench.

When you consider how poor we were in the first half, where everyone made mistakes, it wasn't that bad a result. We just needed a little more composure. The thing that always gets me about NZ is how much stronger they always look. Nature/nurture? Or, do we just lack confidence?

Think Shenton is really starting to come of age now. If Atkins is injured, though, lets get Gleeson out there!!! Quickly.

I thought Kevin Brown had a decent turn of pace, he looked like he was running in cement for Widdops try. Danny Mcguire would have been under the sticks there and we'd have kicked the goal and had all the momentum

Widdop 6, did ok, one big error but defended well, covered in centre well as well.
Goulding 5 didnt offer much, worked hard but never looked a threat
Shenton 7 would have been an 8 or 9 had he played as well in the 1st half as he did the 2nd
Atkins 4 was poor while he was on, poor defence on 2nd NZ try
Briscoe 6 - good game, good player, looked dangerous and looks like a player who can make something special happen
Brown 5 im not sure what he offered
S Tomkins 7, good game, looked much better at FB than at SO
Fielden 4, didnt win the collision, lost vital ball, gave away penalties. Poor
Roby 7 see Shenton, poor first half, fantastic 2nd
Graham 8 ran well, good game, but looked knackered by the end, asked to do too much again.
Ellis 6 decent, didnt do anything particularly wrong nor did he do anything great. He is much better than this and we need him to show it.
Burgess 7 made good ground on the edges, good hits on defence, nothing amazing but did the basics well
O'Loughlin 9 defended well in the 1st half, did well on offence when given the space in the 2nd
Robinson 6 didnt do too badly, didnt really offer much though
Griffin 4 looked out his depth
Westwood 6, would be a 7 but for his discipline. Get rid of his brain farts and he is a quality player, he can sometimes be a liability
J Tomkins 5- didnt do anything to catch the eye, didnt seem to play a lot of minutes.

Mcnamara 6. Didnt get hammered which is a positive, But his big calls Griffin, Robinson, Brown Fielden didnt really pull it out of the bag for him. We looked knackered by the end of it, Griffin and Tomkins didnt seem to play a whole heap of minutes which leaves me to wonder how much further we could have pushed them with Lynch taking some of the work from Graham and Crabtree adding that impact. I think Mcnamara messed up by only having one out and out prop on the bench

Pie fan notices that Shenton has now signed for Saints....

F*cking idiots don't understand the game on here - Westwood gives away a few pens... no s**t.. he also busts the line every run and tackles at a unbelievable rate

Without getting into an argument about Westwoods ability, surely you can't believe that if a player makes good yardage and tackles well then it doesn't matter if he gives away a few penalties. A penalty is worth say 30 metres for the kick and another say 40 metres with the resulting set of 6 - and then you've got the kick to come. In any game, but particularly tight international games, penatlies are worth their weight in gold. If two players are giving a couple of penalties each per game, it will really hurt the team. Fielden's penalties particualrly stood out for me. I think you can forgive a player for one, but at international level, you can't really afford to have players give away any more than that.

Also think its worth pointing out that its the penalties when an oppositon is coming away from their line are the real frustrating ones. If you give a penalty away on your own line on the 1st tackle, its pretty worthless to the opposition (well apart from if they want to go for the two that is).

For me Tomkins needs to be full back, God knows what we will do in the halves though. Should we of taken Deacon or will Robinson be able to cut it.Brown looks too slow but with a little familiarity of Robinson it may help. With Atkins and Shenton maybe injured then we have Widdop and ? Cudjoe ? Clubb ? with Lunt coming onto the bench . The wingers both played ok so really should keep there jerseys

Why does almsot every fan need to blame other teams for England defeats? We all know they're plenty of players in the team which aren't good enough along with an awful coach. If we had a fully fit squad we'd have a great chance of challenging. At least these young lads will gain a bit of experience. The team below is what I'd like to have seen go if fit.

1.Tomkins
2.Briscoe
3.Bridge
4.Atkins
5.Hall
6.Pryce
7.Eastmond
8.Morley
9.Sinfield
10.Peacock
11.Ellis
12.Burgess
13.O'Loughlin

14.Roby
15.Graham
16.Tomkins
17.Westwood