Paris were hardly a success. What 2 years, a couple of gates over 10,000, down to less than 3,000.

And I never said Keighley were better than London. What I said was I understood why they were aggrieved. London didn't exactly work out well. And till they have there own ground, they will struggle financially.

You actually think the rest of the country give a toss about who plays RL. I've said in this and other threads. Until we get a proper international calender, and get more intrest with regards international RL. People aren't going to care. The only reason RU is on more people's radar is because they have a proper international calender. Where the games are known years in advance. Until we do that we will always be in a losing battle with regards the media. So we aren't on people's radar.

Toronto is an interesting one, but I'm fairly sure that if they don't go up franchising will be brought back. But if Toronto fail, who other than RL supporters are going to care. As you said the general public don't care. So weather it's Keighley, Wakefield or Toronto, Toulouse they won't care. I now, as I'm the only one in my family who follows RL. And people in my family didn't even know Catalans had a team, let alone Toronto.

Great debating skills there



As low as 500 I believe........but the pres releases when SL started citing teams in the English and French Capitals was far more likely to be noticed on Fleet Street than a new name for pit village rugby featuring Dewsbury, Featherstone, Keighley and other places that nobody outside of Yorkshire knew even existed!

Toronto failing would be yet another blow for expansion, with the "traditionalists" lining up to say "I told you so". and to be fair, IF they were to fail, those people would be right.
There has to be some longevity to the plight of ANY RL club and a 3-4 year plan, based on attaining SL status isn't good business, whether it be a pit village or a metropolis.

The maths are simple...to be a viable RL club in the professional ranks of SL you need a 10,000 average gate and if you are "renting" a stadium, then 11k is the target.
Wire, Saints, FC, Leeds and the pies are the clubs that deliver at present.....Castleford and Catalans are close, but the rest aren't delivering. Well meaning owners like O'Neill, Hudgell, Davy, Hughes and Beaumont are good to have, but the reality is they back "yoyo" clubs who dwell at the bottom half of the table or in the 2nd tier and with the return to relegation any chances of "building" both on and off the park are again gone and it's all about avoiding the drop....I wonder what will happen once toronto get up......will they close the door behind them.

Even though Toronto have had some help from the RFL (extending the league 1 salary cap, changing the way league 1 promotion etc). The way they started in the lowest league gives them a solid base. It's helped them build the brand. And show people in the city the game and club.
I don't think that the way the fixture list been done this year helps them. But if they go up no one can really argue against them as they would have done it the right way.
Funny enough to see where Toronto are, we need them to have a bad season where they really struggle. Then we'll see if crowds are going to stick with them etc.

I've said all along, to build a strong RL it's not about expansion v heartlands. It's about both moving together. Growing together, same rules for everyone. Accepting each other. Both need each other,