Perhaps they should, but almost certainly they won't get the business, because there'll be another supplier who will offer credit terms. Of course, in the event of the debtor going tits, they can have a chortle, but even then they didn't get the profit on the business in the years before it went tits, and if like most sports clubs it doesn't go tits, they've lost a good customer.

It's essentially a business risk. Which is not to say I don't feel sorry for creditors affected - I've been there done that with other failed companies and it is not nice - but the Bulls aren't the first UK business to become insolvent.

If you can trade on a cash up front only basis, then great, and some do, but I'd guess the majority don't have the luxury of being able to restrict the people they do business with in that way.

I don't know what you mean?

But while we are dispensing valuable business consultancy advice I would also recommend the management of Website companys not to diversify into the management of sports clubs. Though on a serious note there clearly was at least one former director who did take a hit to the wallet as a result of the administration, I haven't seen the statement of affairs but assume that must have been one of the bigger trade creditors?

You might suppose that; I could not [ipossibly[/i comment...

To be fair it's not easy for people running companies when trade is hard to find.

I worked for a firm during the eighties, a firm which made textile equipment as its major money spinner, and it was struggling very badly as the industry contracted and the customer base simply closed down beneath us. The company diversified into other areas with partial success, but in reality was slowly bleeding from a thousand cuts in its core business.

The final straw was when they got a large order from China, from a source they'd dealt with previously, and went ahead and ordered the materials without waiting for a letter of credit, and I guess you can work out what happened when the order was cancelled after work had already started on it.

It was stupid. Everyone agreed it was stupid, and diabolical business practice, but desperate times called for desperate measures and anyway, without the Chinese contract the firm was most likely dead anyway. Small firms are just blown around in these sort of circumstances and sometimes it's difficult allocate 'blame', even though you know that blame has to be allocated.

What good work did the Bulls do at the start of SuperLeague? Bradford Northern copied marketing methods already used by Keighley. In 94/95 Bradford's average attendance was 4,593, Keighley 3,787 and Halifax 5,083. At the start of the Super League Bradford really grew that fan base 10k in 96, 15k in 98. Why couldn't Halifax do the same in 2 years if they won promotion? No other teams like Halifax, Leigh or Featherstone will ever have the opportunity to have the strongest supporter base in SL, the highest attendance, or become the biggest rivalries in the game if they are never given their chance to actually compete in the Super League. There are other teams whose supporters pledge blindly to try to save their club... in fact I have for my club and it didn't work but I'm still here supporting them, hoping my team will win the division again and this time genuinely have a chance of being promoted.

Do I truly believe that kicking Bradford out of the SL is in the interest of RL.... I don't know, they certainly deserve it, though it would be a shock to the league before attendances creep up again this sport could really use the money right now, alternatively the sport may regain some credibility as a proper sport (as it has none with most of my midland and southern colleagues), given their production of new RL talent I'll probably say they should stay in for now...

If Bradford were in the Championship wouldn't the supporters hope for their chance to play in the big leagues when teams make a squander their chance and can't manage themselves appropriately at such a level.

Featherstone deserve SL because of their consistently strong team, Fax deserve it for their all around decent club, Leigh have a reasonable team with good facilities. All could address their failings and be great in just a short time with SL size revenues and visibility...

Anyone see the teeny weeny flaw in his argument?

Remind me again what competition Halifax played in from the start of SL? Why the fekk did THEY not do what Bulls did?

I suppose "first mover advantage", i.e they had SL level team, position and visibilty then employed the marketing techniques to grow support. Halifax were too slow at employing effective marketing but yes I know they were in the super league at that time... I'm just saying there's nothing stopping them now to at least substantially grow support to something nearer that of Bradford.

so franchising, licensing and the salary cap were brought in to protect clubs from their directors, create a level playing field and ensure that clubs are run in a financially sound way.

It's not really done very well has it?

The fully professional era in rugby league only started in 1996 and as in football, the only real winners are the players and their agents!

get rid of the salary cap. let the rich owners buy success! re introduce promotion and relegation, and do away with "Super league contracts" that allowed relegated clubs to release players if they go down!

Yes, we might lose some players to other sports. Yes some clubs might go to the wall, or to the brink of hitting the wall.

But hasnt that happened in the last 16 years anyway? become a proper sport with a true sporting pathway to the top once more, and lets stop being a joke. and when you do this, ensure that, like in football, proper sporting penalties for financial irregularities/admins etc... and yes, that would include the BUlls losing their SL status, but also having a proper way back, just as RAngers have in scottish football.

Yeah just bring back Huey and Bluey eh?

TBH I think a lot of the razamatazz isn't worth diddly unless you have a competitive team on the field. Keighley had one in Div 2 back in the mid 90s. Had they played like Runcorn Highfield they wouldn't have attracted the fans. Same goes for the Bulls in SL.

As for Fax I remember them getting 8 or 9k back in the glory years under Anderson. With a bigger ground and some marketing with a good side there's no reason why they can't again, and good luck to them. I just would rather it not be at the expense of Bradford. Given that P&R is coming back in then Fax have a good chance of getting back in sooner rather than later.

Franchising was brought in due to the disaster that was P&R, whereby one club after another went bust after losing their SL place, but as is so often the case with new systems it hasn't been a total success. Though I'd suggest that the idea of a three year period for new clubs to get used to life in the higher division is one of the better points, since the old yo-yo phenomenon we had under P&R, where the same teams constantly changed leagues every season was quite ridiculous and did no one any favours.

The cap was similar in that it was brought in, under P&R, not originally to make for a level playing field, but to prevent clubs spending more than they could afford in ever more desperate attempts to stave off relegation. It was never enforceable though, and still isn't, and it has had a bit of 'mission creep' as well as when the proportion of income bit was dropped the emphasis moved then to supposedly creating the "level playing field". At the end of the day if, "an unconnected third party", wishes to shower riches onto a player there isn't a thing anyone can do about it.

I think one of the problems at Fax was the fans. To be blunt, they had too many 'flatcappers', saying neigh to anything which smacked of razzamataz and the club couldn't get things done without it meeting a great swathe of protest from people who just wanted the club to be Halifax RLFC, or didn't see the point of mascots etc. I don't know why the Bradford fans weren't as vociferous, because there were plenty of folk unhappy about changing Northern to Bulls at the time, but they just didn't create in the manner of the Fax fans, so things did change at Odsal.

Between august 95 when the bulls launched and march 06 there was plenty of unsupportive fans who even chnated "northern, Northern" at games! the bulls was seen as a cheap rip off of the Keighley style.

having won nothing bar a yorkshire cup in 15 years, We beat Leeds in the cup semi, took part in a classic (if losing) wembley final, and the rest is as they say, history. IMO, that one win at the mcalpine defined and enabled the vision of mssrs Deakin, Caisley and smith to come to fruition over the next 10 seasons.

Halifax didnt get that success, infact their biggest successes were already ten years past. they were on a decline, whereas we were on the up. It was as much about lucky timing as astute business planning! I actually miss playing halifax in our league. often this rivalry pre super league was more intense than the leeds bradford one, but many on here will simply not be old enough to remember pre SL, or early sl. One of the greatest games Ive ever witnessed was out win at Thrum Hall in 1997!

Frankly, if you have to ask, then you know so little about the subject that I might as well talk to my tortoises. But anyway . . .


Tosh. Keighley brought in what could be described as US-style razzamatazz, albeit obviously much watered down and on a comparatively tiny budget. Are you seriously suggesting Keighley invented cheerleaders, dancing girls and the rest? For a time, it worked, but just as in the Bulls' case, withered and became a pale shadow of its former glories as the fortuns of the team declined, and as they (and we) failed to freshen and re-invent it, to keep people interested.

The Bulls' version of "mania" was just that - a version of something that in principle had been done for may decades in sport, mainly in the US. But our masterstroke was certainly not "copying Keighley", but employing the marketing genius, Peter Deakin.


"Deserve"??

What money? If Bulls leave SL this will make the other clubs rich? 3.50537109375:5