FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Bateman Back at Red Hall |
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
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| I would guess the obvious difference is that in the other crusher incidents none of the tacklers dropped their entire body weight on the ball carriers head/kneck.
I would be quite happy for the massively overrated McIlorum be sine die just for the smug way he goes about his very average business, but I can't say I noticed it during the game, if anyone can post a video link I would be interested.
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| The RFL need to recognise that many incidents don't fall into consistent and convenient categories. If anything, this is the problem with the current system - predetermined categories of offence with punishments that do not always fit the severity of the crime. Thus the likes of Chase seemingly get away with murder, whereas the treatment of Bateman seems heavy-handed. More flexibility needs to be introduced - at present the RFL are hiding behind an overly rigid set of guidelines which give only the impression of fairness.
I also think that the rules for high tackles and tackling a player in the air need to be looked at. At the moment a mere touch while a player is in the air or glancing contact above the shoulder is enough to result in a penalty, which ruins the spectacle and seems to run contrary to the otherwise physical nature of the game. At the same time there is still plenty of nasty facial stuff going on in the tackle that still isn't being cleaned up.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Exeter Rhino "The RFL need to recognise that many incidents don't fall into consistent and convenient categories. If anything, this is the problem with the current system - predetermined categories of offence with punishments that do not always fit the severity of the crime. ...'"
Where ARE these predetermined categories? Has anybody got a link to them?
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Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.: |
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| Go to the RFL - disciplinary - on the right is 2010 on-field compliance sentencing guidelines (pdf)
rlGuidelinesrl
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Highlander "Go to the RFL - disciplinary - on the right is 2010 on-field compliance sentencing guidelines (pdf)
rlGuidelinesrl'"
Oh, I've been. I go there regularly. I think you miss my point.
In Bateman's case the details of charge were[sizeLaw'"
That reads like a quote from the relevant part of a rule, regulation, sentencing guideline or some such other. But that wording does not exist anywhere that I have so far found. And it does not exist in those guidelines.
15.1(i) simply states:
"Behaves in any way contrary to the true spirit of the game"
My long-standing puzzlement is exactly where does the above wording come from? Unless somebody knows, then I conclude it has been made up.
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34183_1277913198.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34183.jpg |
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| It's a quirky system of assessment that deems Rangi Chase deliberately aiming at the jaw of an opponent (with clearly one primary outcome likely) to be a four match ban and Batemans over zealous, stupid neck grapple to be 3. Both for me were at least 6 matches in their relevant contexts. Chase's tackle however was absolutely disgraceful. Had Ryan Bailey, Lima or Josh Perry done something similar, 8 matches plus would be a foregone.
Having a category for charges is one thing, but it is even more clear every incident has a context and given that, Chase's jaw attack - and that exactly what it was, should have been punished with greater severity. I don't care how good he is or his record. Unacceptable.
Bateman meanwhile, similarly needs to get a grip and find the balance between controlled aggression and absolute stupidity.
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: Gurus_Beard "It's a quirky system of assessment that deems Rangi Chase deliberately aiming at the jaw of an opponent (with clearly one primary outcome likely) to be a four match ban and Batemans over zealous, stupid neck grapple to be 3. Both for me were at least 6 matches in their relevant contexts. Chase's tackle however was absolutely disgraceful. Had Ryan Bailey, Lima or Josh Perry done something similar, 8 matches plus would be a foregone.
Having a category for charges is one thing, but it is even more clear every incident has a context and given that, Chase's jaw attack - and that exactly what it was, should have been punished with greater severity. I don't care how good he is or his record. Unacceptable.
Bateman meanwhile, similarly needs to get a grip and find the balance between controlled aggression and absolute stupidity.'"
I would agree with all of that, except if Chase was deliberate it should have been >8 matches, rest of season would have been justice, but I assume the RFL deemed it not deliberate, just careless/dangerous. As I have said before, possibly the RFL did not have the nerve to judge it deliberate because of the consequences of that decision.
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| Quote: Gurus_Beard "
Bateman meanwhile, similarly needs to get a grip and find the balance between controlled aggression and absolute stupidity.'"
Dont you think that will come with a litle thing called experience? for an 18 year old kid to step up to the best super league have to offer and stand toe to toe with them and prove he wont take a backward step is briliant in my view, he may get a tad over excited but the kid is living his dream of playing for the club he loves, to say he needs to get a grip at 18 year ols in my eyes is a joke if he is still doing things like this in 3-4 years maybe but not now
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36131_1571835935.jpg nosorożce biorą to w dupę:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36131.jpg |
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| Quote: Gurus_Beard "It's a quirky system of assessment that deems Rangi Chase deliberately aiming at the jaw of an opponent (with clearly one primary outcome likely) to be a four match ban and Batemans over zealous, stupid neck grapple to be 3. Both for me were at least 6 matches in their relevant contexts. Chase's tackle however was absolutely disgraceful. Had Ryan Bailey, Lima or Josh Perry done something similar, 8 matches plus would be a foregone.'"
Neither Bailey nor Lima nor Perry are the current man of steel wanted by Mcnamara for the exiles matches.
Disclaimer: not that I am suggesting that had any influence over the disciplinary decision. I simply wouldn't say such a thing. Definitely nothing to do with the statement above I am merely point out that they aren't the current man of steel and wanted by Steve McNamara for the exiles matches. No link between the two. Nothin to do with it. The disciplinary made their decision based on the evidence, criteria and using their own judgement nothing else. Definitely nothign to with what I said. Oh no that's clear.
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36131_1571835935.jpg nosorożce biorą to w dupę:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36131.jpg |
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| Quote: thepimp007 "Dont you think that will come with a litle thing called experience? for an 18 year old kid to step up to the best super league have to offer and stand toe to toe with them and prove he wont take a backward step is briliant in my view, he may get a tad over excited but the kid is living his dream of playing for the club he loves, to say he needs to get a grip at 18 year ols in my eyes is a joke if he is still doing things like this in 3-4 years maybe but not now'"
Yeah people are getting a bit carried away with this. The lad'll be right don't worry about that.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| I'm not at all sure how you can in any way equate the Bateman and Chase incidents. Bateman did a stupid thing, but it was all part and parcel of an ongoing tackle, he just did a brainfart and it was a potentially dangerous one.
Whereas Chase's actions have no place in the game, and even if you accept that he was reckless rather than an intentional strike, if he was being reckless, what was he actually doing? Lucky, lucky boy.
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| I don't buy into the concept of reckless for an assault of that magnitude. It was an attack to the head, simple. My eyes tell me that. That he hasn't come out and said "I'm sorry, there was absolutely no excuse for what I did and I can't even explain it. I've also taken away the livelihood of a fellow pro and for that reason I would like to donate a months wages to his funds to assist him thought the next few months"
That he hasn't, is gutless and pretty surprising. I'm all for controlled aggression and even a bit of biff when it's toe to toe. Assaulting the jaw when an opponent isnt expecting it should not be on any sports agenda.
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| Quote: Gurus_Beard "I don't buy into the concept of reckless for an assault of that magnitude. It was an attack to the head, simple. My eyes tell me that. That he hasn't come out and said "I'm sorry, there was absolutely no excuse for what I did and I can't even explain it. I've also taken away the livelihood of a fellow pro and for that reason I would like to donate a months wages to his funds to assist him thought the next few months"
That he hasn't, is gutless and pretty surprising. I'm all for controlled aggression and even a bit of biff when it's toe to toe. Assaulting the jaw when an opponent isnt expecting it should not be on any sports agenda.'"
I think the nail has been hit on the head there the silence from chase was bemusing, i personally wouldnt have him anywhere near the england team again for this reason alone plus the players we have are better in my opinion
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: Gurus_Beard "I don't buy into the concept of reckless for an assault of that magnitude. It was an attack to the head, simple. My eyes tell me that. That he hasn't come out and said "I'm sorry, there was absolutely no excuse for what I did and I can't even explain it. I've also taken away the livelihood of a fellow pro and for that reason I would like to donate a months wages to his funds to assist him thought the next few months"
That he hasn't, is gutless and pretty surprising. I'm all for controlled aggression and even a bit of biff when it's toe to toe. Assaulting the jaw when an opponent isnt expecting it should not be on any sports agenda.'"
I find it hard to comprehend a pro player doing that to another player. What makes me think the unthinkable is Chase's reaction, similar to Raynor on Tomkins, there seemed absolutley no remorse at the result immediately after the incident. Chase almost seemed to be revelling in it from the videos I've seen. We've all seen numnerous incidents of the defender swinging at the ball & the arm bouncing off the ball or shoulder into the head, followed by the defender acknowledging the mistake.
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: thepimp007 "I think the nail has been hit on the head there the silence from chase was bemusing, i personally wouldnt have him anywhere near the england team again for this reason alone plus the players we have are better in my opinion'"
A huge number of great players would never have gone on to international greatness if that was the case. Barrie McDermott, when he was still Barry, did a worse one on Paul Sironen in that there was absolutely no doubt about his intentions. Mick Cassidy's was as bad. (Not that Cassidy was an international great).
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