FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Raynor's 2 game ban |
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| Quote: Fishsta "Are they suggesting a "value" of a player to a team?
There is no doubt that Tomkins' quality makes him a highly "valuable" player to have on the team. If he is replaced by a player of lesser "value", then Wigan have been disadvantaged as a result of an opposing player's rule-breaking action.'"
That, many assume, is why that Halifax thug went straight for Lynchy's head at the start of the previous round tie. He never missed either, so it was absolutely HIS fault that he smacked lynch in the head, deliberate or not.
And yet...that player remained on the field.
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| Quote: Player makes initial contact with the ball, rides up to neck, penalty and running caution correct "Add to that that he was up for a high tackle against Crusaders on 5th February (no charge, reasons
Well the "no charge" shouldn't count. Aisde from the Salford game you've had to go back another 3 years. Rugby League is a tough physical contact sport. Every single player in the game is guilty of producing a high shot eveyr now and then. The fact he's done it twice over 3 years is a very good record. Type in Joel Tomkins name and tell me Raynor still has a bad record.
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| Quote: Fishsta "Are they suggesting a "value" of a player to a team?
There is no doubt that Tomkins' quality makes him a highly "valuable" player to have on the team. If he is replaced by a player of lesser "value", then Wigan have been disadvantaged as a result of an opposing player's rule-breaking action.'"
Undoubtedly. They shouldn't take into account players' value as then you're entering the grey area of "opinion", but yes that's exactly what I assume is the case.
No doubt Wigan were disadvantaged by Tomkins not being able to continue. Another player had to replace him and finding someone to replace a talent like that is hardly going to be easy. Had Raynor stayed on the field, yes Wigan would have been disadvantaged and it would have been unfair, which is one of the reasons I agreed with the red card.
What I take issue with is the RFL seemingly suggesting that replacing a quality player with a "lesser" player (with no disrespect meant to the sub) is in some way equal to going down to 12 men for the rest of the game. Which it quite clearly isn't.
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| Quote: DILLIGAF "What I take issue with is the RFL seemingly suggesting that replacing a quality player with a "lesser" player (with no disrespect meant to the sub) is in some way equal to going down to 12 men for the rest of the game. Which it quite clearly isn't.'"
Not even when the replacement is Worrincy? ![Very Happy icon_biggrin.gif](images/smilies//icon_biggrin.gif)
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| Quote: Fishsta "Not even when the replacement is Worrincy?
That's like going down to 10, never mind 12.
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
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| Quote: jockabull " Its you saying he deliberately aimed at the head that I don't agree with. '"
Then I don't agree with me either because I have never said that. £100 to you if can show that I did say, an apology from you if you can't? But don't let me stop the hysterical accusations continuing.
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| Quote: tigertot "Bulls fans seem to know Raynor was not aiming for the head, I have as much evidence that he was.'"
It was this I had in my head from earlier. You've also said several times that its not possible for somebody to accidently miss the ball by that amount in a tackle implying that to have landed where he did was intentional.
However having scanned back through the two threads you have also said several times you think he was aiming for the arm. For clarity then do you think he was aiming for the arm and missed or do you think he was aiming for the head intentionally?
And hysterical? Think I've been positively calm compared to most. Hell I've even defended Ganson twice which has left me feeling slightly dirty! Unless you meant you thought they were funny, in which case I'm glad to be keeping you amused. ![Wink icon_wink.gif](images/smilies//icon_wink.gif)
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
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| Quote: jockabull "It was this I had in my head from earlier. You've also said several times that its not possible for somebody to accidently miss the ball by that amount in a tackle implying that to have landed where he did was intentional.
However having scanned back through the two threads you have also said several times you think he was aiming for the arm. For clarity then do you think he was aiming for the arm and missed or do you think he was aiming for the head intentionally?
And hysterical? Think I've been positively calm compared to most. Hell I've even defended Ganson twice which has left me feeling slightly dirty! Unless you meant you thought they were funny, in which case I'm glad to be keeping you amused.
Impossible to me that he was aiming for the head, but not the arm. However, having watched it numerous times it looks to me like he is aiming for the head & his initial reaction is not one of somebody who has made a catastrophic error. What saves him for me is that it is out of character on the pitch & given his recent problems he would be totally stupid to risk what remains of his career by potentially ending someone elses.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Bull Mania "Well the "no charge" shouldn't count. Aisde from the Salford game you've had to go back another 3 years. Rugby League is a tough physical contact sport. Every single player in the game is guilty of producing a high shot eveyr now and then. The fact he's done it twice over 3 years is a very good record. Type in Joel Tomkins name and tell me Raynor still has a bad record.'"
I didn't say he had a bad record, I was countering the suggestions that he was squeaky clean or had an excellent record. I respectfully suggest you're clutching at straws as what probably did for him most was the very recent headshot he was up for. They couldn't ignore that IMHO.
On the other hand I am finding these "valuable player" arguments increasingly bizarre. There has never been any instance that i know of where the value of the fouled player has been a relevant factor and nor should it be. I'd be of the view that every player deserves equal protection from the judiciary.
Moreover, this line of thinking is completely at odds with what has been the modern approach, which has been to put practically everything on report, so the disciplinary can have a look at it, and leave an even contest. I can see the argument that that advantages future opponents not the "victims", but right or wrong that is (or was) our current system.
Further, if we are going to delve into this sort of stuff, then what about Raynor's actions arguably costing the Bulls their place in the Cup? Doesn't that trump the key man factor, seeing as we lost?
And I still don't believe the VR has the authority to send players off. But as it's Bradford, we seem to make up the rules on the fly.
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Moreover, this line of thinking is completely at odds with what has been the modern approach, which has been to put practically everything on report, so the disciplinary can have a look at it, and leave an even contest. I can see the argument that that advantages future opponents not the "victims", but right or wrong that is (or was) our current system. '"
Think of the advantage to the current opponent as a side effect of penalising the offender and the prevalence of on report makes more sense. It's trying to make sure it penalises the offender correctly rather than advantage the opponents.
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "I can see the argument that that advantages future opponents not the "victims", but right or wrong that is (or was) our current system. '"
I agree that there needs to be consistency, but I'll disagree that future opponents are "advantaged"... they still have to play 17-on-17, whereas we would have been down to 16-on-17 (assuming no-one else was injured and out of the match at that point). Alright you might not have your first choice available through suspension, but unless you've got several other players suspended or injured, you might not even notice their absence, especially against bottom-end teams.
No offence intended on that last remark.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Fishsta "I agree that there needs to be consistency, but I'll disagree that future opponents are "advantaged"... they still have to play 17-on-17, whereas we would have been down to 16-on-17 (assuming no-one else was injured and out of the match at that point). Alright you might not have your first choice available through suspension, but unless you've got several other players suspended or injured, you might not even notice their absence, especially against bottom-end teams.
No offence intended on that last remark.'"
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