FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Winding up petition |
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: Bully_Boxer "I'm past worrying, if we go tits up.. we go tits up. Not much more that the devoted fans who turn up each week can do to alter that.'"
Exactly
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Exactly'"
Couldn't agree more
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11062.gif A casual stroll throught the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.:11062.gif |
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| I've come to accept that in spite of any perceived injustices, I will continue to turn up and do what I always do, while feeling slightly anxious. It's the Bulls fan experience, and when pro Rugby League in Bradford is less of a mess I will have earned the enjoyment and reflected glory that it will yield.
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| That is another downside to smaller crowds it is easier for the dreaded VATman to count them
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Player Coach | 7094 | ![](images/sitelogos/fullsize/19.png) |
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36131_1571835935.jpg nosorożce biorą to w dupę:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36131.jpg |
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Well, I'm no expert on VAt or tax assessments, but I do know (because I've been advocating it for years) that if HMRC want, they can simply raise a tax assessment to a company, and they then must pay that, they can appeal it if they want, but they still must pay in the first place. I can't see why they don't do that to force the Starbucks and Vodafones of this world to cough up.
Anyhoo, if its like that, then you have to pay up, even if you appeal, although the sporting thing would be for HMRC to wait and see. They don't have a big rep for being sporting.'"
That's not necessarily true. All joking aside the tax man can be quite
flexible. I deal with old IR staff and old Customs and Excise staff. IR staff are still lagging behind their colleagues that came from Customs in the a hole department.
It takes a while to get to the stage where they issue a WUP or they've been listening to Yorkshire radio and got excited.
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| Quote: SombreroBu11 "VAT Assessments are generally raised for one of two reasons
Are we arguing that Luaki is an unheated pudding?
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36788_1300836245.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36788.jpg |
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| Quote: SombreroBu11 "VAT Assessments are generally raised for one of two reasons
It's the second point that HMRC explained to the listeners yesterday evening.
Although they won't comment on individual cases the explanation on how the system works was most fascinating for the majority of listeners who don't fully understand the implications and financial penalties of false information or late submittance etc...
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Maybe we disputed paying them the VAT on admissions, on the grounds the team wasn't providing any sort of service?
I'll get me coat ... again
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| Quote: MicktheGled "Quote: MicktheGled "VAT Assessments are generally raised for one of two reasons
It's the second point that HMRC explained to the listeners yesterday evening.
Although they won't comment on individual cases the explanation on how the system works was most fascinating for the majority of listeners who don't fully understand the implications and financial penalties of false information or late submittance etc...'"
I caught the last bit and have I got this right in that the lady from HMRC explained that VAT assessments are only issued where the company has been lax in filing returns or been found to be lacking in accuracy in previous returns. So the winding-up procedure is the very last form of enforcement that HMRC use when all other forms have been exhausted. So HMRC use the bulls VAT is based on money that the company has received so they have had that money but used it for purposes other than payment of taxes to HMRC? if correct then someone at Odsal needs to be held accountable for this mess.
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| [code][/code] Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Maybe we disputed paying them the VAT on admissions, on the grounds the team wasn't providing any sort of service?
I'll get me coat ... again'"
that's my mid morning chuckle sorted ![bow down a014.gif](images/smilies//a014.gif)
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: David Tasker "...So HMRC use the bulls VAT is based on money that the company has received so they have had that money but used it for purposes other than payment of taxes to HMRC? if correct then someone at Odsal needs to be held accountable for this mess.'"
It's not that simple. Leaving aside the fact that few companies pay all collected VAT into a separate account to pay over quarterly, even if they did, what if after the event HMRC decree that something was VATable - but you didn't charge VAT?
All you can do is pay, or appeal. And usually you are demanded to pay up anyway, regardless of appeal, on the basis only if your appeal succeeds would you get a refund.
For example, if the value of your service was £100,000. You didn't charge VAT. You think you have £100,000. HMRC decides it was VATable, so you are deemed to have charged £83,333 + VAT, and to owe the VAT man £16,667.
That's OK if you have a spare £16,667 kicking around to pay pending appeal, but a problem if you haven't.
I have no clue what it is, but on the face of it, we must have a case for disputing the assessment, as I can't imagine either missing a basic VAT requirement, nor going to the expense of an appeal if there were not at least strongly arguable reasons. Unless and until we know more, you can't say whether anyone needs to be "held accountable". I don't know who does the Bulls' day to day and VAT/tax accounts.
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| I'm making an assumption here, but if the accounts records were up to date, factual and recorded in a professional manner, then the HMRC wouldn't need to disagree, or demand more tax to be paid.
Each couple of months sees the Bulls subject to a Winding Up Order. Each one of these Orders would have gone through a "Debt Process" prior to the issue (or indeed threat) of a Winding Up Order.
The excuses are starting to run dry for me. Mr Green keeps beating this drum about how he intends to run the club like a business. Part of running a business is managing the accounts accordingly.
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1271.jpg Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
Build Bridges NOT Walls:1271.jpg |
Moderator
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| I thought you just took the taxman out for a bite to eat, you all had a good laugh and then forget about the 'debt' and went home friends? Or is that just when you owe £million upon £million?
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: daveyz999 "I'm making an assumption here, but if the accounts records were up to date, factual and recorded in a professional manner, then the HMRC wouldn't need to disagree, or demand more tax to be paid...'"
Sorry but that's patent bollox.
HMRC isn't fit for purpose, and hasn't been for years. They will gladly bankrupt some bloke with a tiny shop in a backstreet, or issue automatic fines and penalties for struggling businessmen a day late with their accounts, whilst doing illegal sweetheart deals with multinationals and allowing blatant tax fiddles to rip off the UK taxpayer, for example the use of offshore companies hiding behind LLPs. Through their lax attitude, London has become money laundering central, with whole swathes of the capital now bought through laundered funds and owned through secret offshore trusts. HMRC are a fscking disgrace.
HMRC C*O*U*L*D issue MEGA assessments to every one of those tax avoiding businesses and fscking well SHoULD but they don't. Of course, half the people in power benefit greatly from the blind eye turned to the major fiddles. I'm sure that's a pure coincidence.
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953.jpg 2015 - major missed opportunity, 2016 - stronger teams = harder task (no problem there then), 2017 - OMG What now!!!:953.jpg |
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Sorry but that's patent bollox.
HMRC isn't fit for purpose, and hasn't been for years. They will gladly bankrupt some bloke with a tiny shop in a backstreet, or issue automatic fines and penalties for struggling businessmen a day late with their accounts, whilst doing illegal sweetheart deals with multinationals and allowing blatant tax fiddles to rip off the UK taxpayer, for example the use of offshore companies hiding behind LLPs. Through their lax attitude, London has become money laundering central, with whole swathes of the capital now bought through laundered funds and owned through secret offshore trusts. HMRC are a fscking disgrace.
HMRC C*O*U*L*D issue MEGA assessments to every one of those tax avoiding businesses and fscking well SHoULD but they don't. Of course, half the people in power benefit greatly from the blind eye turned to the major fiddles. I'm sure that's a pure coincidence.'"
That's all well and good. If you haven't paid VAT on something you should have then that is not HMRCs fault and I should imagine they work on the premise that ignorance is no defence.
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