...... your point above would be very valid if it weren't for the fact that the VAST majority of monies promised to fund the OSV is proposed to come from Council capital receipts. You know the sale of Horsfall and Richard Dunn land and advanced cash in recognition of Dunn's losing money.

The Bulls by comparison have promised to furnish and decorate any areas that are built exclusively for their use.

It's an interesting comparison purely provided for balance.

The Richard Dunn centre loses a lot of money as it stands. It's badly designed and doesn't really serve the purpose it was supposedly designed for.
The amount of land it takes up is huge and that land is very valuable, being in a reasonably good area and right at the top of the M606.

A new modern sports centre would save the council a lot of money and that has been taken into consideration as part of the plan.

I agree to an extent BUT considering your very valid points in 1 & 4 how do you propose the Council address them ?

Make no mistake, I've said it before, if they could get it to work they would. They probably thought they had the monkey off their back with the £5m payout and handing responsibility to the Bulls but that worked well didn't it, £5m spent and now desperately seeking more money for the running of Odsal.

I suppose the Council could give the Bulls £45m, City £50m and proportionately less to BPA, Cougars, Eccleshill and Thackley.

Can you see Council Tax payers voting for that little lot ?

Since time immemorial, all the Council have ever done about Odsal is use ratepayers' cash to line the very deep and well-tailored pockets of a long and distinguished line of consultants. Nothing ever came of any of them, it was all a monumental waste of cash, nothing ever will, nothing has changed.

We don't have anyone in the city with either the strategic vision, or with the head-knocking-together clout, to put together a "new Odsal".

With regard to the OSV, here we have references to a key date in March, only 3 months away, and yet here for the first time some bozo says, "Wait a minute, did you know, there's another pro club in Bradford. Shouldn't we maybe speak to them, and look into whether we could do something else?"

IF City were/are ever to have anything whatsoever to do with OSV discussions/alternatives, then why these past few long years have the Council not mentioned it to them? Are we really to believe that at 11.59 they have just realized that City and VP exist, and they and their fans are a factor?

Or why if remotely interested in some collaboration, have City not been in touch with the council?

Can it [ireally [/ibe that our well-paid consultants either omitted, or were not briefed, to consider these wider issues?

I can sum up what has been achieved with all the wasted millions on the back of a fag packet:-

"The Bulls can go to VP, or go hang. The OSV is dead in the water."

Alas your standpoint isn't proving particularly balanced is it. You're still steadfast in the inaccurate opinion that Bulls fans didn't like VP purely because it was further away.

Say something positive about Bulls fans; call it a challenge to see whether you're just a City Agent Provocateur or not.

In accepting that NOWHERE would have been good enough for the Bulls, because Odsal means too much to the fans, it is unfortunate that people deride the grievances of Bulls fans as being entirely groundless (so to speak).

The comments that were made about local residents (I'm not familiar with them) were made for what reason would you say? Mischief? Snobbery? I'm not making a point here I genuinely want to know.

I don't understand the problem with moving either?

Teams move, for all kinds of reasons, teams move! Stadia is very important, tradition is very important, I stood on my father's shoulders (god rest his soul) behind the posts at Odsal every Sunday, every Winter in the 70's, I helped my grandfather (god rest his soul) over the wall at Valley Parade on 11th May 1985 - These things are all very important personally and collectively, and I would never want the memories of those two men or those poor souls who perished at VP forgotten, but we do their memory a disservice by not looking forward to the future they can't have, which is far more important for our own children and the long term viability of both clubs.

We must have a stadium fit for purpose in the 21st century without tens of millions of pounds it can't be Odsal, City don't even own VP - So maybe just maybe a new stadium to share is the way forward - Rule nothing out, rule everything in!!

Not at all, as I have said people whined about anything (location, car parking, no bouncy castles/cheerleaders, stewards, seats, food and drink etc etc) and everything just to excuse the fact they couldn't be d supporting the team they claimed to support. None of these things stop people going to watch their team.


A few of them are quite nice, one or two even have a sense of humour.

I disagree entirely. I went to every matchg at VP and complained about it so it DIDN'T stop me supporting my team. However, it was supposed to be a short term solution. Were we to move to VP lopng term then you expect to switch to a stadium with better overall facilities. And you would still have to get the RFL to allow us to play on a pitch that doesn't meet the miniumum requirements on a permanent basis.

Well, that's two of us.

I'm surprised that the complete unsuitability of the pitch hasn't been mentioned before either. Unless you move one end of the ground backwards 10-20 metres that is insoluble, and rules VP out in a breath.

But how does closing Odsal and moving to VP - even if that were possible, which it's not - solve the Richard Dunn problem? Anyone? Or do we just do away with Odsal, do away with RD, and leave a huge sporting/exercise black hole in south Bradford? (But get to build some more houses).

The problem is people who didn't and won't go though, not those who did


Surely you aren't trying to claim Odsal has better facilities? Facility wise the only advantage I can see is the ability to stand.

Sure Ken Morrison could spare some space in one of his supermarket carparks for a kick around.

Or centenary square, park at the heart etc could become a new sports stadidump

I'm pretty sure that the Council would have no problem funding a replacement Sports Centre by itself either through existing capital budgets or the realisation of some of Dunn's existing land.

If Dunn's is losing as much money as they say then it's a "no brainer" with no other "schemes" and "political problems" attached.


Well South Bradford will be losing the swimming pool under current OSV proposals so what would that leave ?

Anyone would think that the athletics track, a non-league footy stadium, 4 x 11 a side pitches and a cricket pitch that are proposed to be built over by houses didn't already exist in South Bradford

BM, I think you make some good points. However, I believe the situation boils down to this[*If Bulls were to move to VP permanently, they would not be viable as a top flight rugby league club.[/*
[*If Bulls stay at Odsal as it is, they will sooner or later not be viable as a top flight rugby league club.[/*
[*Bulls have no realistic means of developing the stadium without Council backing.[/*
[*It is in Bradford Council's interests to have the Bulls continue as a top flight rugby league club.[/*[/list
Do you disagree or take issue with any of the above statements? Should Bradford Council allow another of the city's sporting institutions go to the wall when we know that with the right facilities they can more than pay for themselves in the long run?

fundamental problem we have is we are only leaseholders of odsal so we cant borrow against value of land. This also makes it difficult to attract outside investment other than grants.
council would probably sign ground over to us but then we would become liable for cost of enviromental cleanup which is needed, which is probably a significant percentage of costs of OSV.