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Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Permanently?

Because the problem with that is that we all know you can't fund a SL - standard squad in the Championship; so even if you managed to come straight back up, you would be the next version of the yo-yo clubs. Unless, of course, you came up and bet the house by buying up all the most expensive players you could find to cobble together a SL - standard squad

During the period of promotion and relegation, there were never really yo yo clubs. Of the teams relegated they either moved to the championship and stayed there (like Halifax and Leigh) or been relegated, come back up and moved onto greater things, Huddersfield being the obvious example, with castleford, and Widnes less predominantly (though both have massively improved competitiveness than before they were relegated).

In my opinion, relegation challenges the people in charge of a club to cut the fat and create a core that can be built around, failing to do so takes a lot longer to bounce back, but can be beneficial in the long run. How many years did Huddersfield finish bottom before being relegated? It's possibly been one of the best things for them to get them out of that rut.

Whether or not it would be good (in the long run) for Bradford I don't know. But, you may not be able to fund a sl club in the championship, but you definitely can't fund a club at all with no money.

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Quote: Duckman "This is the bit I'd like clarifying too, I might have just missed it. Is it (trying to simplify here) that the expeniditure and income forecasts for 2014 are out by 400k? (accepting that we have debts, but if we ran at break even we could manage the debt over time) we we're looking to drop our expenditure by 400k to only spend what were earning.

So if we assumed we had the missing 600k sky money would the books balance? And if that were the case is there not an argument to ask to defer (not cancel) our second year punishment until 2015, or even maybe half of it until 2015 giving us an extra 300k this year and allowing us to make more manageble cuts of 100k+ or whatever we need over the short to meduim term? Then new board can set out realistic player/staff salary targets for 2015 and beyond for the long term in a managed way rather than a firesale way in the first P&R year since licencing.'"


I would imagine they will make such a request, but only once they have visibly done everything else, which they certainly seem to be doing - trying to cut the wage bill by 10%, cutting admin, calling for volunteers which would reduce the wage bill etc. I would also think they would want to minimise the amount of reduction this year to get the max increase next year, more 400/200 reduction than 300/300

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The RFL withholding money to a stricken club as mentioned.

I understand the RFL not just giving money to a club that seemingly quarterly is changing the Leaders and then finding even more debt. Do the RFL not do an audit to find the truth? "Just when you think you can see the bottom of the hole someone hands you a spade"

Clearly the board are more competent and fit for purpose than the other, (although well meaning OK) have been, I mean more commercially adept and business like. If players have to be sold then that is a fact. The club will still be able to compete. Good players are just around the corner often unnoticed until they are there playing. if you see what I mean.

Sometimes boards need help and I hope the RFL and Provident are using there influence and skills in the best interests of the Bulls.

Actually £400K is not a lot of money to the club it is what is hiding away suspiciously that is concerning me.

I also understand the RFL has a duty to be wary of wolves looking at asset stripping.

To Edit, That the RFL should be concentrating and releasing money strategically to stabilise the concentration of clubs that play it regionally. A period of 3 to 5 years enhancing that, instead of frittering money away in expansion of areas that it is just not working. The games improvement regionally will sell itself outwardly to other markets over time.

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The star says Moore is a millionaire businessman, is that correct?

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lets hope he doesn't follow David Hughes' guide to running a Rugby league club then, or he wont be a millionaire for long

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Quote: Ewwenorfolk "The star says Moore is a millionaire businessman, is that correct?'"


Most adjectives in the Star relate to more physical attributes, so would guess "millionaire" is the only financial one they have for businessmen. However from the club's viewpoint it's more how much of their wealth they are prepared to put into the club with no or low expectation it will ever come back out again. I think the euphemism is "pledge" to the cause.

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His assets can no doubt be added up to whatever you like, but that doesn't mean he has diddly squat available to throw at his hobbies.

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Quote: Northernrelic "To be honest FA the way the change to SL is being lined up at the end of next year if you aren't in SL for 2015 it is very unlikely you ever will be. Even with 14 teams and a clear 2nd tier within those in terms of finance it is tough to stay up even with a wealthy backer ( eg Widnes) but if the number of teams reduces further as the weaker teams finally buckle under the strain then the gap in squad strength, finance to overcome becomes even harder to bridge. So unless someone turns up with £20m to burn ( maybe in a new area?) just cannot see teams, especially traditional ones like Fax, Featherstone, Leigh ( or the Bulls) ever having a chance to get back into the top flight.'"


I'd say there were around eight clubs with sufficient financial backup to to feel secure. However, eight clubs is not really sufficient to make a decent league competition, so some of the 'also rans' are necessary to 'fill out' gaps in the fixture list. I certainly can't see fewer than ten clubs for a competitive league without duplicating fixtures too much and twelve is even more realistic minimum for a sensibly organised competition.

We don't have any big 'money men' behind us but, being in one of the largest cities in England, we do have the advantage of a large potential audience, much larger than most of the obvious rivals so, all things being equal, it's likely that with gates even averaging around C5k, we'd be able to pass muster as a middle ranking side, in SL.

Of course, you never know the future. In a couple of years it may well be that there are a dozen financially backed clubs, or it may be down to half a dozen, no one knows - we just need to keep chipping away.

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Quote: Bulliac "

being in one of the largest cities in England, we do have the advantage of a large potential audience, much larger than most of the obvious rivals so, all things being equal, it's likely that with gates even averaging around C5k, we'd be able to pass muster as a middle ranking side, in SL.

'"


I think the ability to fund a successful Superleague club is one of those areas where "size does not matter". Only 4 of the top 20 cities per the 2011 census even have a RL team. A gate of 5k is over 3k down on last year - or another £500k less funding from our current position.

So while Bradford is the 6th largest city in the UK by population - I think it is also likely that since the glory days the number of reasonably well paid jobs in the city has fallen and more HQ or professional organisations have fled to Leeds - or even further afield. The hard core Bradford RL support is a much smaller % of the population than it is in say Wigan or Hull ( If you push through the merger icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: tristram "How about trying to raise 400k, or at least significant proportion of it, rather than 'save' it?'"


I must agree there my friend. It's a false economy to reduce staffing levels that are already cut to the bone.
Why not raise a new reduced 6 game season ticket at a reduced cost for Xmas. Say £90 for 6 games, if they got
1000 supporters equals £90k. And if we are to assume this figure of £400k was to be saved over the year or £37k per month.
The first £90k would go a fair way to buying them time to get their act together, plus they would be earning from the season starting.

One of the Unique Selling Points of Odsal, is the fact that it has the room that other stadiums don't have. So even 25,000 supporters would not be a problem. So sell e'm cheap and stack e'm high as the supermarkets do.

The share option and our £650k back would also help. Note that, I believe , 2014 is the last year of the current SKY deal, so we don't really know the amount of compensation, or in fact if the contract has been re - negotiated as yet?

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Wasn't it "selling them cheap" that was fairly instrumental in getting you into the current position?
People value what they pay for, dumping a product onto the market devalues the product.

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Quote: Rarebreed "I must agree there my friend. It's a false economy to reduce staffing levels that are already cut to the bone.
Why not raise a new reduced 6 game season ticket at a reduced cost for Xmas. Say £90 for 6 games, if they got
1000 supporters equals £90k. And if we are to assume this figure of £400k was to be saved over the year or £37k per month.
The first £90k would go a fair way to buying them time to get their act together, plus they would be earning from the season starting.

One of the Unique Selling Points of Odsal, is the fact that it has the room that other stadiums don't have. So even 25,000 supporters would not be a problem. So sell e'm cheap and stack e'm high as the supermarkets do.

The share option and our £650k back would also help. Note that, I believe , 2014 is the last year of the current SKY deal, so we don't really know the amount of compensation, or in fact if the contract has been re - negotiated as yet?'"


The SKY deal doesn't run out till the end of 2016 season

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Quote: BartonFlyer "Wasn't it "selling them cheap" that was fairly instrumental in getting you into the current position?
People value what they pay for, dumping a product onto the market devalues the product.'"


The Stadium devalues the offering to the paying public. Is it right that Odsal is just a past memory and any attachment to it is now outdated and probably very costly.

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Quote: Ewwenorfolk "The star says Moore is a millionaire businessman, is that correct?'"

Having the money to be able to afford to invest in a SL club takes more than a million....ask Ken Davy or David Hughes. Dr K at Salford is going to discover how expensive a hobby it can be.
rlhttps://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/28/number-1millionpound-homes-up-thirdrl
323,684 Properties in the UK valued at a million+.....adding another 1,500 to that number very week... Millionaires are ten a penny nowadays.

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Quote: BartonFlyer "Wasn't it "selling them cheap" that was fairly instrumental in getting you into the current position?
People value what they pay for, dumping a product onto the market devalues the product.'"


As I've said elsewhere, when the season tickets were sold cheaply, they were TOO cheap. The board at the time clearly thought that people would be turning up every week and spending money to cover the short fall from the reduced ticket prices. That didn't happen. But a reduced priced ticket for a fixed number of games is something I think would be a winner. I know several people who can't go to every game due to other commitments so something like this would appeal to them.

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