Obviously the gameplan was to put bombs up to Wellens yesterday. Either that or we ignored the game plan.

Based on the last 2 games, we either have no tactics, or the completely wrong ones.

As you point out either it's poor, or the players are ignoring the coach. Either way the coach is at fault.

Seemed to me Kearney was trying to kick diagonally across field for the other centre/wing meaning we turned the ball over on the 40 a couple of times. Orford's grubber kicks close to the line seemed to stem from desperation and as Cullen pointed out on B n'all we have no one cutting back to run lines against the grain of Orford's direction, meaning a sliding defense copes every time. Most are taking the ball at a standing start and when close to the line we continuously drift one way - right to left - then fail and then drift the other way and try again, with no dummy running and as you identify one set move with Halley on the run around, it's extremely predictable. There seems to be some emphasis upon Beaver as a play maker getting his hands free to put Kearney though the gap, the same technique that was used and didn't work with Jefferies last year. Other than that there seems to be little clue and even if we do run from deep there's no evidence of switching the direction of attack, or an understanding between players in terms of inside passes, offloading or support etc. All of which Saints demonstrated in abundance.

We don't have the power to play one out and suck a defense in, so there is little space created and without good lines and lots of support/dummy running you'll always struggle against a well drilled defense. Add to that an inability to control the ruck and a real struggle to compete defensively against a big set of forwards and you'll get hammered just like yesterday.

I think it is quite clear what our tactics are, give it Lanlgey, Lynch, Scruton, etc to drive it in every time and see if you can bull doze their way over the try line.

If that fails, we resort to giving it to orford to give it Kearney who will run diagonally and seemingly get no where fast.

When that doesnt work, plan c is to fire a 30 metre pass out to the wing which will either be intercepted or will completely off target and go to ground.

It is often said that Orford is the best number 7 to never represent his country, I'm sorry but from the form he has showed so far , I wouldn't let him represent our conuntry, never mind the Kangeroos!

I think we need to leave Orford alone at the moment

Lets get the facts straight:

- He is pivotal to any gameplan and therefore will need time for him to settle in & others to settle around him. Not sure a friendly at HKR, Giants away and yesterdays farce have given him much opportunity yet

- He is playing in a new comp and needs to adjust to Northern Hempisphere RL

- He had no pre season with us & then arrived to 6 inches of white stuff he has probably never seen before

- According to Brad Drew on Radio Leeds last night he had a knee op in winter and will still be recovering. Now I know on these threads we have lots of experts but i tend to listen to someone with his experience

- Many, many good judges in Oz gave him tag of best half back never to play for Oz. Now again , I would tend to listen to this opinion from people in the know who have watched him perform in best comp in world for approx 10 years, rather than the many experts who visit Odsal and then seem quick to slag people off

- He is also playing in a side probably, no certainly, without the calibre of players he is used to and who not what he wanted them to do and would it as they knew he would go with correct option

Lets give him a fair crack and really IMO the same applies to Kearney. Lots of people now appear to want him to play at FB, so what do we do then, wait another length of time to give a new pairing at half back chance to gel!

I agree abut laying off Orford , but letting Orford run the show isn't a game plan. Or maybe it is and for the reasons you indicate above that's why we have problems. However, how would you account for the lack of a game plan in previous seasons?

Orford looked liked he was in a state of shock yesterday, as if it was just dawning on him that his teammates weren't up to it. Hence some of the rash passes.

When did he have a knee op and how bad was the problem? I was quite surprised that a player supposedly on very good money, the new playmaker of the team didnt turn up until quite late into pre season and didnt feature that much. If he was recovering from an op and was unable to travel then fair enough, but there did seem to be a marked contrast with the approach of Glen Morrison who arrived in Bradford well before pre season training started.

Do you mean Hall?

I would suggest a game plan such as ,, put andy linch or scrunton on the 20 line when we are on th 4th tackle and let him charge at the ball with speed , who will be there to stop him ? He is like a tank.

Also there is no players on each othershoulders for off loads , i saw 8/9 tackles where players have been tackled and could easy of offloaded the ball and been in with a try against st's but there is just no tactics in the game play ! its shocking !

Well ..... I have been quite for too long now but I have to mention that we have been completely lost without Paul Deacon

It seems strange that he leaves us for an older, slower Aussie & move to Wigan where they are unbeaten with Deacs in the team & We are .... well beaten

Bets'y Bulls mentioned that Orford has had surgery a couple of posts previous.

Menzies gets his arms free so often and is looking to offload but no-one is there. It was the same last year and I kept hoping someone would learn to read his game but it didn't happen and hasn't happened so far this year.

The short flat pass to the runner could work (Orford has the ability to do this) if any of our players were running when they hit the ball, rather than standing still and having to try and leg drive to make some ground, and our play maker had more than 1 option making it too easy to close down. Langley worked so hard driving the ball up when if he stood back another 5 meters and hit the ball moving his momentum would do half the work for him. Get him running wider with support and we could have something approaching a tactic. Worrincy scored 10 tries last year and a good few of those were from him catching the ball on the move.

Defensively we didn't seem to work hard enough at the play of the ball meaning St's were clearing the ruck far too easily and effectively taking out 2 players from our defence on every tackle. Once we start doing that it's no wonder St's halves found space to work.