I'm not that bothered about the voting thing tbh, I don't care if I only get the same vote as people who pay less, and if you have a situation where you can effectively buy votes, you're getting a bit like the government. Doubt there's any chance of power to make binding or major decisions so I don't see it as any biggie really. They may surprise me.

As for Premier Club justification, I'm old enough sadly to have been a "Vice President" when they first brought this concept in. The name is itself over-grand, but was I think chosen to big people up, and certainly in those days, the VPs were made to feel as if they had got something extra, just for example we had that neat little bar opposite the ticket office. And car parking in the ground was included.

I set out what we "get" but really getting the "opportunity" to spend an extra fifty quid to park is about it, as the Premier Club bar is no great shakes and is really only an advantage on very busy games when the regular bar has long queues. I don't even count the black seats since once you pay in to the stand, nobody will stop you sitting in the black seats, whether you paid to do so or not, so (stand sellout games excepted) that is not relevant. (I assume they will not be so terminally stupid as to pen all speccies into the stand, though if they did then that would obviously be different).

There is no doubt at all that the change to Premier Club was a retrograde step for members, and you're right, the cost isn't justified. The diehard Premier members just pay it but I think they have for years been taken for granted, occasional token gestures apart. But there's a reason that there gradually got to be less and less occupied black seats. Although a lot of those vacancies were caused by bad club decisions - e.g. getting rid of Brett Ferres - rather than perceived shortcomings of the season ticket deal.

Not sure I agree with that bit Martin. Effectively what there selling us is a membership+season ticket. I'd be surprised if later on they offer the season ticket without the membership. So effectively your paying £25 for the membership and voting rights + an extra amount for whatever level of season ticket your prepared to pay for. Why should someone over 65 who chooses to stand on terraces not have same voting rights as someone who chooses to pay full whack for a preimier seat. Your paying more for benefits of a seat etc not for more votes IMO. Not that I expect us to be able to vote on anything too important anyway.

I think we may be getting a bit hung up about 'voting rights' as, has been noted above, we don't know what they will be.

Firstly, I can't imagine for a millisecond that Marc is going to cede much control to the fans, so it's likely to be very limited imo; maybe a bit like the communication cord we used to have on trains, which in American films always showed the train sliding to a screaming halt, wheels locked and with sparks flying from the tracks. In reality, the cord merely nudged the brake lever sufficiently to alert the driver that someone had pulled the chain. The driver would then ask the guard to check out what the problem was, before HE decided whether stopping the train was the appropriate action.

Given that if you ask fans what to do, you may well get very mixed answers, I'd guess Marc would be pretty safe in using the communication cord approach and whatever, I can't see his massive [as owner] voting rights being overturned though, of course, he may well be influenced and I'd suspect that's about as far as it would go.

The BullBuilder article in the T & A has jogged my memory. I was a previous member, but have heard nothing/paid nothing to the "new" Bullbuilder, which I am happy to do. I thought they were contacting all past members. Have I missed something? Can anyone help

Quote: BeechwoodBull "The BullBuilder article in the T & A has jogged my memory. I was a previous member, but have heard nothing/paid nothing to the "new" Bullbuilder, which I am happy to do. I thought they were contacting all past members. Have I missed something? Can anyone help'" Yes, we should have done. If your contact details were, for some reason, not in our database, I can only apologise. I will PM you, but for general information, you can re-join BullBuilder at www.bullbuilder.co.uk/join/. Anyone who joins from now onwards will be considered a member for 2015 and we will issue new membership cards shortly (the previous ones were extended to the end of this year, following our period of dormancy). We hope to have a post-season event, but plans for that have not yet been finalised. We'll keep you in touch about that. If you need any more information, please Email info@bullbuilder.co.uk By the way, for anyone who missed the T&A article, it was here www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... ?ref=var_0

Quote: BeechwoodBull "The BullBuilder article in the T & A has jogged my memory. I was a previous member, but have heard nothing/paid nothing to the "new" Bullbuilder, which I am happy to do. I thought they were contacting all past members. Have I missed something? Can anyone help'" Yes, we should have done. If your contact details were, for some reason, not in our database, I can only apologise. I will PM you, but for general information, you can re-join BullBuilder at www.bullbuilder.co.uk/join/. Anyone who joins from now onwards will be considered a member for 2015 and we will issue new membership cards shortly (the previous ones were extended to the end of this year, following our period of dormancy). We hope to have a post-season event, but plans for that have not yet been finalised. We'll keep you in touch about that. If you need any more information, please Email info@bullbuilder.co.uk By the way, for anyone who missed the T&A article, it was here www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... ?ref=var_0

Marc Green mentioned the success (or lack of) of the Bull Power initiative for supply of domestic energy, after having a look at the comparisons I'm shown that new suppliers can save me £180. That's a big chunk of my new season tickets sorted. Worth a look for nothing.

I'm pretty unsure of changing again to be honest. I've done it five or six times now and not noticed any difference. They always tell you that you'll save £xxx , but when you re-check after three or four months you find the company you changed from is now cheaper than the one you've changed to [on an 18 month min contract, natch..] waste of effort and saves the hassle not to bother to be honest. Big Tory con trick to put privatised companies [not you and me]in the money, for my two pennorth..

I know what you mean, this time I was more interested in the price per unit (kWh), and that was less. Maybe looking through rose tinted glasses but at least I feel better having done it.

I've changed suppliers quite a few times. It's not easy to check if it will save you money, but not that hard either.

You need to know how many kWh you use in a year and you need to know the standing charge. Then a spreadsheet, or calculator and back of a fag packet, will tell you the totals.

I have been with the cheapest suppliers for several years now, and so I have saved a bit of money, but only by being on the horse which for the time being is slightly trailing the pack. Over time they just switch positions, that's all, and customer inertia probably means the trailing horse keeps many of its customers when it surges towards the pacemakers. Over time, taken as a whole, energy supply is one of the greatest rip-offs and cons ever perpetrated on us as it just merrily careers upwards, impervious to wage or price inflation.

What would work is if EVERYBODY switched to the cheapest provider, so no other supplier suddenly had any customers at all. But obviously they count on this not happening, and on customers either not bothering to look, or thinking the savings aren't worth the inconvenience.

I think Britiish Gas have been trying to get rid of all their customers. I havent changed often but recently went through exactly the process as described by FA with annual usage kwh rates standing charges etc and decided to change from BG. Before I did I called them and told them the kwh price I was being offered, and did they want to at least match it? No we don't, goodbye was the answer, which I couldnt believe as everyone knows that the cheapest sales are to existing customers. A week or two ago, a phone call from BG trying to sell me energy, resulting in me telling them they were several months too late.