Blatant pen;Hicks bottled it; but you will insist you are correct FA. As always.

As far as mistakes were concerned apart from the odd “free play” incident that went in our favour I didn’t see anything that bad. The laying on at the PTB and the lack of anything like 10m at times was still as infuriating and led to a poor spectacle.

Mind you with a quicker PTB and decent 10 we’d probably have been thrashed!

I remember him waving six to go and then the turnover on the next tackle, what made it seem logical was that the ball had been bouncing around loose just before, though, to be honest, I didn't see a Widnes player touch the ball but I thought Hicks must have done. Hicks' signals are ropey at the best of times though and I agree with Bullseye about the laying on and 'shallow' ten. Apparently, according to friends who see more than I do [at present!, refereeing in the championship is not as good as in SL..

I see the wink, but it wasn't blatant, and none of the match officials called it as a blatant penalty (TJs are supposed to call blatant foul play that the ref has missed).

Hicks didn't "bottle it". On what basis was it a "bottling"? We lost, so it would be an odd person who accused the ref of giving us an advantage by bottling away calls.

How about this as a suggestion - Hicks saw what happened and gave us the benefit of the doubt? I realise that's too non-conspiratorial for some!

And, of course. you're right: I'm right!

................Pope is Catholic, bears poo in the woods.

Thought the 10 was mostly fine - only recall one occasion when Widnes seemed massively offside. I agree with the lying on, but IMHO that's RL referees instructions not Hicks personally; Widnes are by no means the worst offenders in the league at this (though Betts has got them pretty good, you can see the technique, an extra man always comes in if he possibly can without being a flop; there are 2 players lying on top of each other; they always pause at least a second before anyone makes a move: the top player then looks around, and levers himself up with hands pressing his colleague down; the last player then finally moves).

It does spoil the game. But any team that persists in this tactic from the outset seems to be largely allowed to set its own benchmark and get away with it. I see it all the time in TV games. Personally I think it's part of the unspoken edict to "keep games flowing" and cut down on penalties for non-foul play. Ironically it does anything but keep the game flowing. But most teams do it, and as I say, Widnes are by no means the worst.

Why don't we do it though? It might have served us well in the second half, and slowed them down a bit and let our defense organise. We seem obsessed with being ultra fair and jumping off the tackle, even if our opponents are doing a Widnes, or is that just me?

The one message I still remember from my old coaches was "play to the whistle" as no points are awarded for occupying the moral highground

I think it’s down to a few things that combine to ensure we’re not in any state to be able to slow things down. For the most part we have had a smaller pack this year with our big lads having to play longer periods thus blunting their effectiveness in attack and defence. Versus Widnes it was apparent how most of their team were bigger than ours across the board.

Most times the Widnes players ran direct and made ground at the collision, dominating things and getting their body in the right position to get a quick ptb. Often our players make contact at the chest are but don’t have the strength or technique to bring the man down. It takes a lot of effort and that takes its toll. I’d bet that the number of quick PTBs and offloads increased for Widnes as the game went on. They certainly seemed to find it easier in the 2nd half. Nobody seems to tackle around the legs which does bemuse me slightly given our physical inferiority.

If we’re going to come back up we need more size up front but also more aggression, determination and intensity. I think a lot of the times when Widnes looked offside was down to our slow PTB and their quick lines speed which was in contrast to our half assed effort.

This. A keen defence sprinting forward at the instant of the PTB can look well offside, but viewed in slo-mo, really isn't.

There were at least half a dozen times when the Widnes line was a yard or two offside but this was down to line speed rather than not retreating in the first place.

Much improved fitness required for next year. We might be alright in games versus most of the Championship sides but the rest of the top 3 and the bottom 4 of SL will be a different proposition. I wonder if Lowes will bring in more staff to help with conditioning? Langley was rumoured to be coming back a while ago but I’ve not idea if he’s qualified to do that.

He and Wayne Godwin have / had a personal trainer business together. I don't know how actually qualified he is but I bet he's paper qualified.

Defenders are not supposed to move before the PTB is taken, so our 'slow' PTB makes no difference to the ruling, other than allowing our opponents more time to 'get ready' to run.. Though I accept that, since the ball rarely touches a foot, it is a moot point [iexactly[/i when the PTB takes place.