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Quote: Adeybull "You really are one arrogant patronising fool. You confuse "ambition" with "money". It is very hard to fulfil your ambitions if you lack the money to compete with those who are bankrolled (overtly or otherwise).

At this rate, all the likes of Moran will do is create an elite of - at best - half a dozen clubs, and the rest will fall by the wayside. At present, you'd say that Elite would be Wire, Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Hull and Hudds, and probably Catalans. But I can see Leeds and Saints not being prepared to pump money into a RL arms race indefinitely. And you'll almost certainly not see any new entrants intop the mega-monied category.

So if your idea of enjoying your game is a super-duper league of half a dozen clubs, playing each other five times or more a year, then just carry right on as you are.'"


Cheers, I'll ignore the compliment for now.... icon_cool.gif

So do you suggest that Mr Moran and other wealthy owners actually pull out of the sport and let clubs, and the competition as a whole, struggle and flounder along, instead, letting Rugby Union poach our best playersd and the sport become a mediocre one, as it is left with under funded teams playing in outdated stadia?

As for confusing ambition and money??....Unfortunately, and I think you know this being astute in the air of finance, you can't really have one without the other in the world of sport.....Yes, a 'smaller' team can be ambitious and work hard to produce young talent, but its the simple world of the free market, when a richer club comes along and makes offers for those players.....It isn't new to our sport, its just that the buyers and sellers change at regular intervals, thus creating 'cycles' in a club's successes.

Don't forget, not so long ago, we were the seller and, undoubtedly, somewhere down the line, we will become again.

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Quote: Dita's Slot Meter "

As for confusing ambition and money you can't really have one without the other in the world of sport.....Yes, a 'smaller' team can be ambitious and work hard to produce young talent, but its the simple world of the free market, when a richer club comes along and makes offers for those players.....It isn't new to our sport, its just that the buyers and sellers change at regular intervals, thus creating 'cycles' in a club's successes.

'"



Which is where the salary cap is meant to come in, if it isn't ignored.

I think you are right to a point, however signing youngsters like Donaldson and McAvoy who were chased by all the clubs in the league shows ambition, without needing a rich backer. Signing a proven coach like Mick Potter rather than a Lowes or an Agar shows ambition. Andrew Bennett spending hours writing to potential sponsors and backers shows ambition, as well as a commitment to the club in acknowledging that were not the most well off club in the league, but that we have people who will do whatever it takes to get us back up there.

And the signing of Keith Lulia, who at the same time was considering a contract offer from Melbourne. Matt Orford, Steve Menzies etc.

We don't have the money to pay transfer fees, we do have ambition.

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is it true what i hear about whitehead heading to hull?

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Quote: cdavies1 "is it true what i hear about whitehead heading to hull?'"

Not according to Whitehead's twitter.

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whats whitehead said on twitter?

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He says he's not heading to Hull.

Obviously.

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Quote: cdavies1 "whats whitehead said on twitter?'"


Denied the speculation.

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Quote: MicktheGled "Denied the speculation.'"


thats good news then!

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Quote: Dita's Slot Meter "Cheers, I'll ignore the compliment for now....
OK, I'll withdraw the (probably uncalled-for anyway) "fool" allegation; your reply shows you are clearly no fool. But, being nobody's fool, you will surely acknowledge how your earlier statements came across as both patronising and arrogant?

Your latest post is far less antagonistic (IMHO), and indeed is making serious headway on "irrefutable".

What do I want? Some honesty. IMO the salary cap is has easy potential for not creating a level playing field at all. Just like tax, the wealthiest will always have opportunities to avoid it. And more than a few of such ways, in both cases, are actually perfectly permissable - "unconnected" third party-paid image rights being a good example.

I have said before that, if I was a wealthy club owner, I am satisfied I could drive coach and horses through the cap. Only those involved will know if they are themselves doing what they have the opportunity to do. I suggest that the comparative quality differences between the squads of clubs supposedly spending the same cap could be taken as an indication that some clubs are indeed taking advantage of such opportunities? But, in the absence of proof (which, if it IS going on, you'd struggle to find anyway) this can only ever be speculation.

What really pìsses me off though is when Bulls fans - let alone outsiders - slag the club and the board off for seemingly paying far too much for our squad relative to those of the monied clubs. Because neither they nor I can be sure that players in the game are not also receiving potentially significant income from supposedly "unconnected" sources; and that some such sources may be more "unconnected" than others. And without some more disclosure, if it IS going on we'll never know.

I'd rather know that club A was playing much better than my club because it was able to arrange for its playing staff to receive much more income than mine, than wonder why the hell my club seems unable to recruit to anything like the level that club A has when we are both supposedly spending the same salary cap. If, of course, that should indeed be the case. But, as it stands, we'll never know so speculation will continue to run riot.

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Adey, you have pointed out obvious ways around the cap. I am still no clearer whether it happens or not. Is it legal? What is your alternative within the resource restrictions of the RFL?

In the 10 years prior to the cap, in the period of professionalism only Wigan, Saints & Bradford won the league. Since the cap Wigan, Saints, Bradford, Leeds & Wire have won the league. As you said, you can add Hudds, Hull & Cats to that list as possible candidates. It would seem to demonstrate that, despite its shortcomings, it is the least worse option.

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Quote: tigertot "In the 10 years prior to the cap, in the period of professionalism only Wigan, Saints & Bradford won the league. Since the cap Wigan, Saints, Bradford, Leeds & Wire have won the league. As you said, you can add Hudds, Hull & Cats to that list as possible candidates. It would seem to demonstrate that, despite its shortcomings, it is the least worse option.'"


When did Wire win the league? eusa_think.gif

I think the increased competitiveness is more down to an increased number of clubs getting richer (thanks to big money backers) and being more professional in how they operate. I think it's probably just a coincidence that the cap has been in operation in that time. In fact only one more club has won the league after the cap came in and they've done that 4 times!

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Quote: Bullseye "When did Wire win the league?
I was under the impression they won it last year (the hub cap as opposed to the GF, which is arguably a better indication of team strength than the play-offs).

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Quote: tigertot "I was under the impression they won it last year (the hub cap as opposed to the GF, which is arguably a better indication of team strength than the play-offs).'"


With those sort of views, we'd love you over on the Wire forum, Tigertot.... icon_lol.gif

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Quote: tigertot "I was under the impression they won it last year (the hub cap as opposed to the GF, which is arguably a better indication of team strength than the play-offs).'"


Your impression does a fine impression of a delusion.

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66 posts in 5 pages 
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