If you are a decent coach you can identify good players from lower ranked sides...........

As for the O' Neill link? I am puzzled by that one TBH but, again, like your rather silly Ferguson comment from previous, O'Neill had been a success at a lower level (Wycombe) before moving upwards to Leicester where he did a great job, went to Celtic where he was a terrific success and then went to Villa WITH A PROVEN RECORD!!!! Does that point not register with [iyou?[/i McNamara has no track record whatsoever. Perhaps Mr O Neill's track record can convince people he is capable.

Again, more spin. And bad spin at that.

If we have another season like last year Sam Burgess won't want to stop anyway.

Track records didn't save Sam Allardyce at Newcastle, or Paul Ince at Blackburn. I find it interesting how the sides that stuck with their managers (Everton, Villa) seem to have the most success in breaking the big four, while the trigger-happy ones (Newcastle, Spurs) quickly find that not making the Champions League isn't rock bottom after all.

In any case, it's an aside, not crucial to the whirlwind of spin that is my case. What is vital, and what you don't seem to consider, is that there may be more to being Bradford Bulls' first team coach than Bulls' first team results in any given season. When Brian Smith took over, results were pretty dire - unsurprising given his early signings (Andy Ireland, Tommy Hodgkinson, St John Ellis RIP, towards the end of his career). But he was laying groundwork. Given the paucity of the league at the time, it didn't take long for us to join the top table. Now Leeds particularly and the other clubs are more up to speed, it's most likely going to be a longer process but one worth sticking with I feel.

What baffles me about you, Eddie, is your passion for getting rid of McNamara in the absence of any alternative. You ever heard of the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underpants_gnomesUnderpants Gnomes[/url?



Have your doubts about McNamara by all means, but I just don't understand how people can be excited by the idea of him leaving the club when your plan seems to go no further than


Does it occur to you that him leaving might be counter-productive?

Only time would tell whether getting rid of McNamara would be counter-productive or not but that point is merely speculation.

In fairness, behind the scenes he may well be doing a good job but his record as coach is poor and it seems he has no idea how to change this. Coaches are judged on their record in the wins/draws/losses column and his is not very good whatsoever. His inability to accept defeat without looking for someone to blame/any excuse is embarrassing also. (Blimey, even YOU keep mentioning the MM result against Leeds in 2007 for goodness sake. You really should move on.)

So again I stress my point that he has been a poor appointment as a coach and I fail to see that he has anything in his make up whatsoever that will suggest he has the ability to turn things round. Indeed, I think the fact that he is a bit of a club [iplaying[/i legend is leading some people to be blinkered about his managerial inabilities.

He was a cheap option who was well marketed in order to suggest that we were getting some kind of Rugby League wizard who had all the answers and, depending on who you listen to, was actually the brains behind our successes under Brian Noble.

If his role within the club is much more than just the first team coach I would suggest that he should be concentrating solely on first team matters and let other people do the background work in which he is apparently so good at. Either that, or let him do the background work and bring in someone to coach the side.

Results will surely dictate this season whether he is off or not but the time for excuses is over. Iestyn is no longer an issue (and, my God, have plenty of people on here blamed HIM for everything) and his team is his own now. It will be interesting to see how he gets on.

However, despite occasional points made by yourself that some people "want to win 40-0 each week" (a point that has NEVER been made by anyone on here as far as I am aware), I must point out that that is not what I am after. I merely seek a decent competitive Bulls side who can show that they are capable of performing against the better sides in the competition and for the coach to maybe hold his hands up now and again for his failings rather than thinking that everyone is out to get him.

You make your own luck in this world, just as you you are judged on performances. McNamara does not cut the mustard in regards to results. But, then again, he is a mid table manager at best so maybe he IS overachieving.

...........................................

So we should act on 'speculation'? Seriously confused here, are you saying because there is doubt we should take the nuclear option of sacking McNamara and hope for the best. I would have thought benefit of the doubt should go to the incumbent.


OK.


Poor compared to who or what? I've demonstrated earlier that it's quite similar to that of Brian Noble at Wigan. It's certainly not markedly worse than his.


Based on what?


By fans. I'd hope for a little more sophisticated level of analysis from the board.


It's highly relevant to a discussion of that season. We were effectively six points deducted against Leeds. Had we not been, it's likely we would have finished above them, something Nobby didn't manage in either of his last two seasons at the club.

Either way, I think you're starting to show your here a bit. If moaning about refs in the media is a central plank in your argument for sacking a coach, you've got your priorities pretty askew. While it may be embarrassing, it's far to trivial to be factored into a serious discussion of someone's position as head coach.

He was no legend. He was a decent player who most people thought was past his best when he left.

Again, the demand that we do a Ratner. Who else was available? Why would they be a better option? If he was such a cheap option, why did Hull FC try to nick him weeks earlier?

Interesting issue you raise. But whoever you bring in is going to cost money the club doesn't appear to have, and surely the idea is that the head coach is intimately involved with youth development. As I understand it, we got Donaldson because Steve Mac showed personal interest him, whilst he never even met Tony Smith when he went to Leeds.


Yup, 2009's a big year. But where's the bar set? Do you concede that it is possible that even if we don't make a final this season it may still be counter-productive to sack McNamara, given the youngsters he has brought on that are approaching first team contention?

I've run/been a mod on this board since 2000, and a poster on various Bulls boards since 1999 - people complain any time Bulls do any less than demolish the opposition/beat Leeds or Saints. They might not demand 40-nils, but they clearly have a very low tolerance of anything less than wins and trophies.


Like we had in 2007, right?


Yup.

The same Brian Noble who inherited a Wigan side sliding toward relegation and a lot worse than the team he left and has since taken them to two consecutive GF eliminators since then, knocking out Steve McNamara's Bradford side in the play-offs in both of those seasons?

The same Brian Noble who has taken Wigan from a decidedly average side to a contender again while McNamara takes us from contender to decidedly average?

I would say his record at Wigan is quite a bit better than our man TBH.

Check the Wigan board from time to time. There's people on there saying the same stuff about Nobby as you are about SM.



[url=http://viewtopic.php?t=381158&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0Link[/url. Now of course, there are Wigan fans that disagree, trying to spin things to make out he should be given more time... but I know what you think of people like that.

The Wigan side that Millward nearly sent into relegation was a decent squad on paper. They were struggling pretty bad with injuries and once they began regaining fitness and Whelan gave Noble half a million quid to sign Fielden, they were always going to improve. Sure, Noble deserves credit for saving their status in SL and is a very good coach IMO but I always felt he was in a pretty much no lose situation.

However I wouldn't say Wigan have done significantly better than us and are 'contenders'. They may well have reached the semi final's the last couple of years, but to me have never looked to have enough in them to seriously trouble Leeds or Saints in a GF. I think it is fair to say we haven't always shown our best against the top sides however we have remained competitive in SL as a whole.

We have a coach who has made mistakes along the way (find a coach in any sport who hasn't) but what he has done right is recognise the importance of getting our youth system back on track. An area that the top two clubs are very strong in and we needed to improve. Obviously the long term aim will take a few more years if indeed as we all hope McNamara and his staff have recruited the right young players. I agree that we could and should have done better with the squad last year and the failure to progress against Hull in the CC was probably the most disappointing aspect of last season for me. You could point to various reasons for that defeat.. tactics, poorer gameplan, individual mistakes, plus an incorrect video decision (we should be getting used to those by now though!).

So it's a mixed bag in my view, McNamara has done some good work and he also has to be held responsible for some poor results as well. I do honestly struggle to see why a small few are SO insistent to see him leave but can understand why the majority are keen to see some improvement this year (myself included). I don't think we have significantly improved the squad on paper for this season, but they do have plenty of improvement as a group. If we have another inconsistent year and we're once again ruing over missed opportunities in big games then perhaps the club will also agree that a fresh approach is needed.

I personally feel optimistic about next season, we have the players to cause a few upsets along the way. So for now.. can we start over once again? And resume this discussion towards the final part of the year? Hopefully we will all be saying McNamara got it right this year.. surely that is what we're all hoping for?

Eh???

This was a squad that contained the following players.....

Dennis Moran, Sean Gleeson, Kevin Brown, Oliver Wilkes, Tim Jonkers, Jordan James, David Vaeliki, Jerry Seuseu and Luisi Sione. Hardly decent.

That is, of course assuming we count the likes of Bryn Hargreaves, Sean O Loughlin, Danny Tickle, Wayne Godwin, Eamon O Carroll, Darrell Goulding, Danny Orr and Paul Prescott amongst the quality that makes up for the dross and makes the squad decent?



Indeed we do. And despite his constant claims that he has learned from his mistakes he has done nothing to suggest he can address the problem thus far.



Because he is not a very good manager/coach. Not too hard to understand TBH.



Despite reassurances that the playing squad would be improved a great deal whenever we got Iestyn the Bradford scapegoats' wage off the books. Another false dawn.



Agreed, except for the part about ruing "missed opportunites in big games." Generally we are never really in contention in big games under SM so the odd bombed try makes little difference.



What does it matter to you? You could always avoid the thread if you do not want to read about it. Because, like it or not, the discussions about Steve McNamara will not go away until he can prove his detractors wrong and his backers right, or, as is probably more likely, vice versa.