but as many bulls fans say ''no matter what we'll still be at OT come the end of the season''

Yep, that was great - and in the 18 games we have played since then we have racked up 7 wins, superb stuff.

Silly errors and poor play has been a feature of this teams play over the last couple of seasons, usually displaying itself in the important games against the bigger teams, now it is spreading to be week in, week out.

Personally I don't take much enjoyment in watching that, Cas may not be too good a team but I doubt they are play as much dumb rugby as we do, and they probably have a little steel and determination to boot.

Before comparing the relative attributes of Noble and McNamara one should compare the players they'ver had at their disposal.

Many of the likes of Pryce, Fielden, Peacock, Vainikolo, Withers, Anderson, Vaikona, Lowes and the Paul brothers were never really replaced with players of a similar ability. As such any side would suffer without such talent. In 2001 Noble took over a stable winning side with settled backroom staff and relative financial security (no Harris case).

McNamara took over a side that was breaking up and had to cope with the loss of experienced assistent coaches and divide in the boardroom. The financial implications of Odsal and the Harris case was also hanging over him and the academy was producing less talent than in previous years.

You've got to bear all this in mind as it puts things into perspective. While we may have reservations about McNamara one must recognise he hasn't had the same tools to work with as Noble.

One interesting point that I think is worth considering is the sheer scale of the player departures since 2004/5. A lot of big names and big earners have gone. Despite assurances from the club I'm beginning to doubt whether we are spending the full cap on playing staff. Is this year's squad really on the same as the 2005 team? (I realise we broke the cap that year but not by much).

If so then there are some very mediocre players on big money and some pretty large ones dropped in terms of recruitment. If not then it would explain the fall from grace.

I'm sure this Bradford side will go considerably better on the dryer, faster tracks in summer. Their results will probably improve appreciably on the firmer pitches.

They're not gonna be anything like good enough to seriously challenge for honours, though (there's nowt like stating the blindingly obvious, I know !!).

Supporters of a slightly older vintage may have noticed the remarkable similarities that exist between Steve Mac's reign at Odsal, and that of Barry Seabourne, 20 or so years ago.

That all ended in tears, too...

It is slightly unfair to put McNamara's record up for scrutiny against Brian Noble's - however standing on its own it is hardly anything to write home about.

Too much of what is wrong with our game surrounds the basic elements of Rugby League, and a clear lack of discipline, leadership and structure - these are things that good coaches have to be able to instil in teams at all levels, from junior to state of origin.

I think (not that we would) bring back Nobby would be the worst decision for the club. Him and Caisley have landed us in pretty much most of the shocker situation we are in now.

Nobby spent most of the money we had on players for 'his' 1st team squad no matter how much they cost...ie Harris. He didn't consider investing and recruiting in decent youngsters when the older guys moved on. Now i think thats why we are in the trouble we are in.

Thats not Steves fault, he has brought in players who he can under the budget we have. The days of going to get 'whoever you want and we'll find the money' are long gone. Steve doesn't have that so he can only go for what we can afford.

Nobby was never interested in going out to find new talent for the under 21's or 18's. He wasn't prepared to invest in the decent kids that were out there back then. Steve is interested in bringing in kids hence why he's taking time out to go get them.

Nobby caused the problems with the Harris and maybe others. Steve just happens to be the one that has to sort it out. If it wasn't him it would have to be someone else............wouldn't chance anything. Yes we could bring in Harrison or Millward .....who's going to pay them what they want???????? we don't have the money.

i have faith in Steve to bring us back up with the team he has, its not going to be easy.

As for the backroom staff, they work there backsides off and its not there fault they have been left with some kids that were signed under nobby etc when they were never going to make it. Its going to take time to find some kids that have what it takes to make it through.

We let some of the youngsters go (Atkins, Bridge) because nobby didn't want them or he didn't have the money....funny how he found the money for Harris!

And as the saying goes you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear!

I think that the current set up are doing the best they can with what's available.

I was wondering how long it would take for Goebbels to turn up.

Are you talking about Wigan today?

I couldn't give a flying f*ck about Wigan today.

Papering over our cracks by pinpointing other teams isn't on my agenda, and shouldn't be on anyone elses.

This is a thread about bringing Noble back.. who is currently coaching the Wigan side.

My comments, that you quoted, were nothing to do with bringing Noble back - and it isn't a view I've expressed.

In fact in that very post I said it was unfair to compare McNamara to Noble



Threads very often move on from initial titles.