FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Points deduction poll |
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| Seems to me, pretty well everyone who comprehensively fekked up to cause this latest total debacle (or their apologists) have been doing their level best to justify their actions.
Bad fail.
The whole sodding lot of them fekked up. Especially including the people in charge at the RFL. Hugely, massively and comprehensively. Going back years, too. Some more than others. Maybe with the honourable exceptions of Calvert, who I have a load of time for, Duckett (ditto) & Watt.
And IMO should be judged accordingly for their roles in destroying this club. As no doubt they will be, when the history books eventually come to be written.
And no amount of seeking to rewrite history to suit their own actions will change that.
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| Quote: Adeybull "Unmitigated rubbish.
1 - Whitcu*t stood down before 12 November.
2 - There was NO winding-up order. They are granted by the High Court. HMRC issued a petition for winding up, to be heard by the High Court in March. As before, you seem to lack an understanding of how these processes work.
3 - You clearly also have little if any understanding of how a business works, and in particular with how the PAYE system works. Fortunately for our readers, some of us DO - and ought to, having been involved in running businesses for many years. The PAYE on the October payroll falls due 22/11 (if paid by bank transfer). That on the November payroll falls due 22/12. On the December Payroll, 22/1 - all assuming no existing arrears.
4 - HMRC are extremely robust in chasing proferssional sports clubs for overdue PAYE. ANd rightly so, given the track record of insolvencies, and especially so where a club (under whatever owners) has already defaulted often. Be more than a few days late, and they will petition to seek to enforce payment. And rightly so - the taxpayer would expect no less.
5 - The winding-up petition was issued c. 14/1, IIRC? By which time, it is highly conceivable that the PAYE on the October, November and December payrolls will have been outstanding. Two payrolls might account for the outstanding amount. Three definitely would (happy to post the maths if required). When Whitcu*t left c.12/11, NONE of this PAYE would be due for payment, provided earlier payments had all been made.
6 - Whitcu*t MAY have been a tad disingenuous (not for the first time) regarding the PAYE on the Otober payroll
Termination of Ryan Whitcut's directorial appointment is logged at Companies House as being 15/11 2013. He states unequivocally there were no monies owing to HMRC at the time of his departure.. Given that he had already admitted to an oversight on his part which had led to previous move to wind up OK Bulls by HMRC, just how credible is his claim?
OK Bulls entered administration on 31/1/2014 in order to protect Marc Green's debenture.
Are you seriously suggesting a debt of £170k was accrued in just two months i.e the November & December payrolls? If Whitcut's claim of no debts at the time of his departure is to be believed, all monies due at the time of his departure, e.g the October payroll deductions were accounted for. Accounting practices would show payroll deductions for that month as a liability upon payment of wages.
Just what sort of wage bill did OK Bulls have in order to accrue £85k a month in liabilities to HMRC? The off field staff would be on PAYE, but many of the players certainly wouldn't.
I'm afraid you haven't demonstrated anything.
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "As usual you state something as a fact, when it is not. OK intended to leave and thought he had sold his shares but a) the purchase price was never paid and b) due to a simple cockup not all the shares were actually transferred. Then the litigation between OK and the buyers ensued and it is still ongoing. Thus on paper OK still owned/own 99 of the 100 shares. And obviously, he not having been paid, that now turned into a considerable impasse. Which was of oucrse removed by the sale via administration.
It would be appreciated if you would stop throwing in loose chitter chatter as “fact” when clearly your knowledge is extremely patchy.
See Adey’s post
The FACT is the sale of the shares took place, and OK gave the buyers time to pay, wisely or not. Are you questioning the fact of it happening? What is this, some sort of quarter-baked conspiracy theory?
Nope, just more false claims by you, but Adey has dealt with those comprehensively.
Another lie from you. At the creditors’ meeting the administrator admitted OK’s debt at around the £1m. Why do you feel compelled to serially claim things as facts, when you don’t actually know?
More to the point, this is not the first time your lies and misstatements have had to be corrected. Do you have a short attention span, or an agenda to keep repeating lies?'"
He 'thought' he had sold his shares? No money changed hands. Payments were allegedly missed because, unbelievably, some of the potential buyers ckaim to have uncovered financial information that differed from what they had been told.
Given that Whitcut was one of the potential buyers who had been in charge of the running of the club, |I find this a little curious. He withheld information from himself?
There never was any legal action instigated against the potential purchasers, and there is non ongoing.
A simple cock up that shares weren't transferred?
There is no evidence on record to support your £1m figure. It's based on nothing more that hearsay and conjecture.
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| Quote: Bulliac "I think it's a reasonable assumption to say that Omar made a few mistakes in his stewardship of the club. In terms of his financial health probably the biggest, given the deal he negotiated, being his decision to take it on in the first place. I think it's pretty fair to say that I would have eschewed the RFL's kind offer and walked away - and I'm a dyed in the wool, long term fan.
Why did he leave the running to Ryan? Well the best bloke to ask would be Omar, of course, though if we accept his stated reason ad health] for leaving maybe the timescale left him little choice; maybe it was a desperate man's final throw of the dice. Truth is I don't know, any more than you do. I do know that in desperate times, otherwise sensible people sometimes take desperate measures - maybe this was one of those?'"
Omar Khan and his associates wanted the glory and publicity. Omar Khan's ego was far larger than his business acumen and his bank account. Gerry Sutcliffe couldn't contain himself.
Khan let Whitcut run the business day to day because they had been business associates for some 20 years. Whitcut was Khan's front man and paid hand.
The 'illness' was a front for a hasty exit. There is not a business man alive who would allegedly put !1m into a business, then walk away within a month, selling his shares for one fifth of that price.
If Khan did put such an amount of money in to secure the club's future, how is it that within a month there's a loan needed to keep the club afloat?
There are mistakes, then there are mistakes
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: LeagueDweeb "He 'thought' he had sold his shares? No money changed hands. Payments were allegedly missed because, unbelievably, some of the potential buyers ckaim to have uncovered financial information that differed from what they had been told. '"
The reasons WHY the payment was not made differ depending whom you ask. The FACT that the deferred payment wasn't made is what is relevant.
Quote: LeagueDweeb "Given that Whitcut was one of the potential buyers who had been in charge of the running of the club, |I find this a little curious. He withheld information from himself? '"
I have never argued that any information was withheld. Given those making that allegation had been involved for some time in the day to day running of the club it is not easy to accept. But as it is not my case, why are you stating it in response to me?
Quote: LeagueDweeb "There never was any legal action instigated against the potential purchasers, and there is non ongoing.'"
You're either a liar, or an idiot. Why do you come up with yet another claim, as if you knew, of something which is just untrue? Does it make you feel big or something?
Quote: LeagueDweeb "A simple cock up that shares weren't transferred? '"
Yes.
Quote: LeagueDweeb "There is no evidence on record to support your £1m figure. It's based on nothing more that hearsay and conjecture.'"
There is evidence on the record of the creditors' meeting and in the hands of the administrator. As I have stated more than once before, OK produced his evidence to the meeting and the administrator accepted it to the tune oif around £1m. This is "fact", not "conjecture" nor "hearsay". I am intrigued as to what purpose, other than getting wet, your continued sing into the wind is serving.
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| Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "The reasons WHY the payment was not made differ depending whom you ask. The FACT that the deferred payment wasn't made is what is relevant.
I have never argued that any information was withheld. Given those making that allegation had been involved for some time in the day to day running of the club it is not easy to accept. But as it is not my case, why are you stating it in response to me?
You're either a liar, or an idiot. Why do you come up with yet another claim, as if you knew, of something which is just untrue? Does it make you feel big or something?
Yes.
There is evidence on the record of the creditors' meeting and in the hands of the administrator. As I have stated more than once before, OK produced his evidence to the meeting and the administrator accepted it to the tune oif around £1m. This is "fact", not "conjecture" nor "hearsay". I am intrigued as to what purpose, other than getting wet, your continued sing into the wind is serving.'"
Who have you asked and what were the reasons given?
Feel free to provide ANY evidence whatsoever that a legal claim was lodged, via which solicitor and at which court. There is no record anywhere of any claim or any date set for a hearing of such a claim.
Please feel free to evidence the documents from the creditors meeting where your claims can be verified. Feel free to evidence the documents accepted by the administrator that prove OK did pump in £1m. Feel free to post these documents for all to see, or any statement of affairs from the administrator to prove your claim.
I think the phrase is, put up or shut up?
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| Bit rich coming from someone who refuses to provide proof of any of his claims. Not very honest or noble.
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Club Coach | 8877 | No Team Selected |
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Others/combustable.gif Red Amber and Black Fantasy Rugby League Champion 2012.
By far the most sensible posts on this thread have come from mystic eddie. - copyright Ewwenorfolk 09.04.2013
Aye, and Eddie is hinting at it too. And, as we all know:
Mystic Eddie has been right all along! - copyright vbfg 05.01.2017:Others/combustable.gif |
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| I had a dream last night that we got all six points back.
Then I remembered that Martin Luther King had a dream, and we all know what happened to him.
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| Quote: mat "Bit rich coming from someone who refuses to provide proof of any of his claims. Not very honest or noble.'"
Mat do we think leaguedweeb is Honest and Noble
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Others/combustable.gif Red Amber and Black Fantasy Rugby League Champion 2012.
By far the most sensible posts on this thread have come from mystic eddie. - copyright Ewwenorfolk 09.04.2013
Aye, and Eddie is hinting at it too. And, as we all know:
Mystic Eddie has been right all along! - copyright vbfg 05.01.2017:Others/combustable.gif |
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| Quote: roger daly "Mat do we think leaguedweeb is Honest and Noble'"
I certainly do not. With all due respect, LD is considerably more articulate than N&H.
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| Quote: mystic eddie "I had a dream last night that we got all six points back.
Then I remembered that Martin Luther King had a dream, and we all know what happened to him.
Eddie I also had a dream last night,we got all 6 points back plus 300 points towards our points difference
In the words of Captain Sensible " You've got to have a dream,if you don't have a dream how you gonna have a dream come true"
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: LeagueDweeb "Who have you asked and what were the reasons given? '"
Asked what, ffs?
Quote: LeagueDweeb "Feel free to provide ANY evidence whatsoever that a legal claim was lodged, via which solicitor and at which court. There is no record anywhere of any claim '"
4.12060546875:5
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423 |
46 |
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335 |
394 |
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418 |
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Catalans |
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