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Quote: Ewwenorfolk "If he hadn't have come, Lynch would have played and we'd still have won, we were unstoppable at the end of '05.'"
you are talking about maybes here you would never know? you still cheated, morley or no morley thats a fact. your first sentance is you in dreamland again.

Quote: Ewwenorfolk "It still doesn't take away from the fact that Langley is capable of playing in a final and is better than Ablett, Kirke, Burgess, Bailey & JJB.'"
all those guys have backed it up year after year(3 times, 4 times) appart from burgess who i wouldnt swap for 2 langleys.

langley might be capable of playing in a final but its that long since he did its really hard to say how he would go. lets face it for now it doesnt look like bradford are gonna be playing in a final anytime soon let alone getting anywhere near winning one.

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Ablett, Kirke and Ryan Bailey are absolute dogsh*t!

Jamie Langley was and always will be betterthan the 3 names above. Jamie Langley however dissapoints me whenever i see, not that his poor just because he could be so much better imo.

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Quote: The Wizard "Ablett, Kirke and '"

have got a 4 year and a 3 year deal from the back to back to back champions. tony smith bluey and gh must all think different regarding all 3. al take their opinion thanks

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Quote: sgtwilko "appart from burgess who i wouldnt swap for 2 langleys.

langley might be capable of playing in a final but its that long since he did its really hard to say how he would go. lets face it for now it doesnt look like bradford are gonna be playing in a final anytime soon let alone getting anywhere near winning one.'"

You wouldn't swap Burgess for 2 of Langers?

I wouldn't say that's dreamland either by the way. It's not like i'm dreaming of it, I was just saying in theory. I couldn't care less if we went over the cap, we still beat you in the final, and it was still a great match & feeling.

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Quote: Ewwenorfolk "You wouldn't swap Burgess for 2 of Langers?

I wouldn't say that's dreamland either by the way. It's not like i'm dreaming of it, I was just saying in theory. I couldn't care less if we went over the cap, we still beat you in the final, and it was still a great match & feeling.'"

Yeah but you cheated. You cheated the system that's put in place to promote an even playing field and good spirt within the game. your club had no respect for those principles and chose to ignore the rules in greed of success. that must be a lovely feeling. eusa_naughty.gif

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Quote: sgtwilko "Yeah but you cheated. You cheated the system that's put in place to promote an even playing field and good spirt within the game. your club had no respect for those principles and chose to ignore the rules in greed of success. that must be a lovely feeling. It is when plenty of people know there's plenty of Leeds players wives on alot more than minimum wage for a helping hand in the club shop or promotional events.

As announced today, Hetherington has found many ways to get around the salary cap. At least we just straight up payed the player, rather than doing the same thing but avoiding being punished.

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Quote: Ewwenorfolk "It is when plenty of people know there's plenty of Leeds players wives on alot more than minimum wage for a helping hand in the club shop or promotional events.
'"
That is totally made up bs by fans and is looked upon as a cap breach! It's also an old wives tale. I've heard Leeds fans say it about saints I've heard saints fans say it about Wigan! it doesn't happen. It's pretty pathetic that you convince yourself Leeds must be cheating the cap when we are obviously not! Did you not hear what sini said after the gf?

Quote: Ewwenorfolk "

As announced today, Hetherington has found many ways to get around the salary cap.'"
by sticking to the rules you mean? GH has done nothing wrong, that's not getting around the cap thats managing player payments within the rules.
Quote: Ewwenorfolk "

At least we just straight up payed the player, rather than doing the same thing but avoiding being punished.'"


you know you are beaten when you start trying to claim some kind of moral high ground or honour in just "straight up" cheating? making totally unfounded accusations that come from pub talk and hear say!
Come on pal get a grip! are you really gonna post this kind of crap?

seriously where do you think this stuff up?

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Quote: sgtwilko "That is totally made up bs by fans and is looked upon as a cap breach! It's also an old wives tale. I've heard Leeds fans say it about saints I've heard saints fans say it about Wigan! it doesn't happen. It's pretty pathetic that you convince yourself Leeds must be cheating the cap when we are obviously not! Did you not hear what sini said after the gf?

'"


It does happen. Don't kid yourself.

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Quote: debaser "It does happen. Don't kid yourself.'"
who when and where? I'm a skeptic mate. I need a little something called evidence? other wise it's BS, hear say, pub talk. if you have facts I'm all ears

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Quote: sgtwilko "Yeah but you cheated. You cheated the system that's put in place to promote an even playing field and good spirt within the game. your club had no respect for those principles and chose to ignore the rules in greed of success. that must be a lovely feeling.
You know, when the history books come to be written, naïve comments like that will probably look rather silly.

Although I've flogged it to death on here, I suppose one more time seems necessary icon_sad.gif

The Bulls' breach was because (it appears) a sizeable proportion of Iestyn Harris' earnings came from sale of his image rights by his personal service company to pub operator Publico. Provided such outfits are an independent third party (as defined in the RFL Operational Rules) not "connected" with the club, such earnings fall outside the cap. Now for some reason - the tale I heard at the time was because of a small one-off advert in a programme, but I suspect other factors may have been at play - the Salary Cap Auditor ruled that Publico was actually "Connected" with the Bulls and therefore what they were paying his PSC counted as salary cap earnings. My understanding is that the club contested this (I won't go into details on here), but to no avail.

Now this arrangement was, and is, used by other players at other clubs too. Indeed, IIRC the self-same Mr Harris was "sponsored by Tissot" when he played for Leeds. I rather suspect that was a similar image rights deal, and if so presumably Harris' agent set this up with Tissot with the club not being at all involved, since no salary cap issues seem to have arisen. Maybe Harris felt so well off as a result that he decided he could play for Leeds for less than he might otherwise have, thereby allowing Leeds more cpa space...who knows? Maybe none of this happened. It must remain conjecture I guess. But Scully's deal with Gillette certainly was of this nature, as I understand it. And these are just two high-profile examples. What is less clear is why the Harris arrangement when at Bulls seems to have been treated differently by the RFL to everyone else. Presumably the salary cap auditor must have felt there were sufficient distinctions?

It is also clear that a main reason for the RFL bringing in the "real-time" salary cap was because - as the Bulls rightly pointed out - the breach (as they deemed it) for year 1 was not ruled on by the RFL until well over half way through the season of year 2. This meant that not only did the club have no opportunity to fix the issue in year 1, it was also far too late to fix it in year 2.

So, this was the "cheating" that the Bulls were seen as engaging in by the likes of you. Seems to me what they did was no different to others clubs. I also hear various tales, hearsay or whatever, suggesting that various other clubs have engaged in practices contrary to the cap, but which were not picked up on. Some surprising ones too, where (if true) things are less whiter than white than people might have us believe. Folk conjecture on these boards all the time - someone mentioned the ubiquitous brown envelope on a thread on the VT earlier, for example. But again, all this remains hearsay, at least until the autobiographies come out.

And also, the current big issue of club-paid image rights and employee benefit trust payments is in my view a blatant means of acting not in the spirit of the cap. Leeds, for example, are a club who admit to having used both devices, and refer to the tax exposure in their published accounts as a contingent liability. The "grossing-up" that any tax settlement would result in would appear to me be a retrospective breach of the salary cap for any club spending at or near the cap.

You made a statement above which is not that far short of defamation, but at the very least displays breathtaking naïvity and partisanship. As I said, I suspect the history books will make interesting reading - over this, and over the whole Harrisgate debacle generally. The villains are not always entirely where you expect.

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Quote: Adeybull "You know, when the history books come to be written, naïve comments like that will probably look rather silly.

Although I've flogged it to death on here, I suppose one more time seems necessary Thank you for your time and effort for which is a very informative post. I don't disagree that if clubs can find ways to pay more then they may well work the system. But as seen as I dont have any hard evidence I'm not in a position to start throwing accusations around

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Quote: Adeybull "You know, when the history books come to be written, naïve comments like that will probably look rather silly.

Although I've flogged it to death on here, I suppose one more time seems necessary
eusa_clap.gif
Excellent post. Even a div like me understood it!

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. . . . that's made it go quiet and hammers the point home, IMHO, of "some people" never letting a few facts get in the way of a good story icon_biggrin.gif

Top man Adey icon_smile.gif

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Quote: sgtwilko "Thank you for your time and effort for which is a very informative post. I don't disagree that if clubs can find ways to pay more then they may well work the system. But as seen as I dont have any hard evidence I'm not in a position to start throwing accusations around'"


I'm pretty sure that you did just throw an accusation about. Didn't you?

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Quote: sgtwilko "Yeah but you cheated. You cheated the system that's put in place to promote an even playing field and good spirt within the game. your club had no respect for those principles and chose to ignore the rules in greed of success. that must be a lovely feeling.
And ? Ablett and Kirke probably play for peanuts to suit there talent! That is the reason they get a nice 3 or 4 year deal.

I also aint no Bradford fan.

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