The definition of irony.

The other point is that the team that registered 3 wins all year was not the one that started the Middle 8's. That was not their fault as the system allowed it to happen. I think Bradford would have done exactly the same thing in their position as would Leigh.

Wakefield are a great old club, but I think even their fans would struggle to name 3 things they bring to SL that enhances that comp. How many Wakefield players have represented England / GB over the past 15 years?

To be honest you could say the same about us over the last 10 years. Plus you would have to put on the minus side all the shenanigans at Odsal over the last 4 years.

I think it's more a matter of potential, to be honest.

potentially we have a 'big crowd' to offer, with a half successful team. We've also produced a number of England internationals over the last 10 years, though very few were actually playing for us when they made their international appearances. That said the Burgesses, Brett Ferres, Ryan Atkins and quite a few other, highly regarded, regular SL players - Kopczak, Bateman, Whitehead etc etc, were developed through the Bulls' junior system.

The game has been in fact littered with excellent Bradford products which circumstances meant we couldn't keep, Leon Pryce, Sam Burgess, Tom Burgess, George Burgess, Jamie Peacock, John Bateman, Ryan Atkins, Chris Bridge, Brett Ferres, Elliott Whitehead, it's a long list.

And it is of course the "shenanigans" that have cost us many of these players over the years, we've paid a very heavy price, repeatedly, for shenanigans. Shenanigans have been more than fully paid for. But like a payday loan with 3000% interest it's the gift which keeps on taking.

Quite fitting that we're sponsored by Provident.

Who's our new sponsor that's being announced at the weekend, anyone?

As well as having had good players can we have any kudos for producing good coaches from our good players - e.g. Brian McDermott, Paul Anderson, Jimmy Lowes (sorry, had to sneak that one in)

You forgot the established coach of the international team

No he did not. If you re-read his post you will see that he was talking about developing good coaches out of our good players.

McNamara does not meet this criteria in any way so he was rightfully omitted from the examples provided.

Sure. McNamara was a completely useless player, his record speaks for itself, and having coached England to a great performance and agonizingly unlucky last minute defeat to the World Champions, is clearly useless at that too.

Also, you don't need to have been a "good player" to make it as a coach.

I never said that you had to have been a good player in order to make a good coach so I would appreciate it if you did not make the suggestion that I did. I also never questioned his ability as a player.

As a coach though he led us from being World Champions to a laughing stock, won us nothing and has managed to lead England to a terrific third place finish in a tournament that only three teams have any chance of winning, AT HOME, to a team that were then utterly mullered in the final.

Yeah. Terrific.