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Quote: Surely not "It is sad I agree, more so when you think how patient the club were with his back injury.Trust was clearly there then...'"


In one regard I totally agree with you. The club stood by him and paid him whilst most specialists were saying his career was as good as done. I'm guessing that good will was forgotten as soon as a SL club came knocking.

That said, this is their professional career, its how they put food on the table and a roof over their heads. And lets face it... careers are not very long. Maybe he's thought how close he came to losing his livelyhood and this has made taking such opportunities an easier decision. I mean who can really say that they wouldn't move to a bigger (and probably better paid) job if offered the chance. I'd guess most of us.

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Quote: Surely not "It is sad I agree, more so when you think how patient the club were with his back injury.Trust was clearly there then...'"


That was then....this is now....The reality of the current situation is that a few well meaning individuals have got together ( for various reasons ! ) to take over an ailing sports club, weighed down with debt. No matter how generous AC and others might appear in waiving monies owed by the club, the stark reality appears to be that cash is extremely tight.
If the 2 players in question were my sons, I'd have them out of there in a shot, especially if a SL team wanted them. Their careers and financial wellbeing must be their first thoughts, and our plight has nothing to offer in both regards.
After following the ups and downs of the Bulls for over 30 years, my loyalty to the current regime is now absolutely nil. There are too many "agendas" within the setup for my liking, and if our scrambled egg friend is only slightly on the mark, there could be yet more problems around the corner.
Thanks for the graft Elliot and Joe, best of luck with your new club. Hope to see you on TV again over the next season or two.

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Quote: MicktheGled "Im sure once the arrivals are announced everyone will feel better.

It's just incredibly sad that Joe and Elliot no longer had any trust in the club and terminated their contracts.

This has been one difficult day.'"



I agree with you. Yesterday was a sad day, but we thought it was going to be so much worse on Monday.

As you said when the recruitment starts, hopefully the mood will be lifted. Oakes is good news. I'd expect Kirk to sign up too. I saw Keinhorsts name been batted about as the loan player from KR but I very much doubt this as he's SL quality.

I depise DR, it makes a mockery of the league, but its absolutely pointless us not using it when most of the league do. Having almost a third of your 17 not your own players if a farce.

If it is Toronto, having 4 players without having to pay them every week will help our situation.

Hopefully we'll all feel better come kick off.

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Quote: Bull Mania "I agree with you. Yesterday was a sad day, but we thought it was going to be so much worse on Monday.

As you said when the recruitment starts, hopefully the mood will be lifted. Oakes is good news. I'd expect Kirk to sign up too. I saw Keinhorsts name been batted about as the loan player from KR but I very much doubt this as he's SL quality.

I depise DR, it makes a mockery of the league, but its absolutely pointless us not using it when most of the league do. Having almost a third of your 17 not your own players if a farce.

If it is Toronto, having 4 players without having to pay them every week will help our situation.

Hopefully we'll all feel better come kick off.'"


Players on loan or DR rarely come for 'free', although they usually end up costing less than their actual salaries. It's one way for clubs to reduce their cap spend as the payments from the club taking the players can be offset that.

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Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.:



The key things being % of wage paid and who covers medical bills.

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Quote: Mr Dog "Players on loan or DR rarely come for 'free', although they usually end up costing less than their actual salaries. It's one way for clubs to reduce their cap spend as the payments from the club taking the players can be offset that.'"


Are you sure about that? I seem to remember Craig Harrison saying something along the lines of Fev having over £100k of talent in the squad but not paying a single penny for them.

I could be mistaken but I think the way the system works is if you DR a player then that's at no cost but loans you must agree the wages (a bit like Leigh did with Kevin Brown and Ryan Brierley).

I cannot see how a club can claim to save on the salary cap simply by offloading players on a week by week basis if not selected.

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Quote: Bull Mania "I agree with you. Yesterday was a sad day, but we thought it was going to be so much worse on Monday.

As you said when the recruitment starts, hopefully the mood will be lifted. Oakes is good news. I'd expect Kirk to sign up too. I saw Keinhorsts name been batted about as the loan player from KR but I very much doubt this as he's SL quality.

I depise DR, it makes a mockery of the league, but its absolutely pointless us not using it when most of the league do. Having almost a third of your 17 not your own players if a farce.

If it is Toronto, having 4 players without having to pay them every week will help our situation.

Hopefully we'll all feel better come kick off.'"


I've spoken to Eric Perez this morning and the money received from the sale of the three players will be used to pay the creditors and the wages as he outlined at the recent fans' forum.

I admire his optimism that whilst the Bulls brand might be toxic, it's far from dead.

Oh and due to people missing me I'm back on Twitter @TheGameCallerRL.

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Quote: MicktheGled "I've spoken to Eric Perez this morning and the money received from the sale of the three players will be used to pay the [icreditors[/i and the wages as he outlined at the recent fans' forum.

I admire his optimism that whilst the Bulls brand might be toxic, it's far from dead.'"

The key question here is which 'creditors' are in fact being 'paid'.

If one allows for 'the brewing storm' the true club debt will we are very confident now exceed £1M. In almost all instances insolvent businesses underestimate (or even do not know) the true magnitude of the sums owed to creditors. A current debt of circa £1M is more likely to be closer to the mark, and that does not include AC's alleged large debt which we aver is no more than convenient accounting chicanery.

Another scandal is also (allegedly) sadly brewing - accurate details of the club's top six creditors.

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Quote: nestegg "The key question here is which 'creditors' are in fact being 'paid'.

If one allows for 'the brewing storm' the true club debt will we are very confident now exceed £1M. In almost all instances insolvent businesses underestimate (or even do not know) the true magnitude of the sums owed to creditors. A current debt of circa £1M is more likely to be closer to the mark, and that does not include AC's alleged large debt which we aver is no more than convenient accounting chicanery.

Another scandal is also (allegedly) sadly brewing - accurate details of the club's top six creditors.'"


Put up or shut up

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Not Evans. He's signed up for a year.

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Quote: MicktheGled "I've spoken to Eric Perez this morning and the money received from the sale of the three players will be used to pay the creditors and the wages as he outlined at the recent fans' forum.

I admire his optimism that whilst the Bulls brand might be toxic, it's far from dead.

Oh and due to people missing me I'm back on Twitter @TheGameCallerRL.'"


An obvious question you probably should have asked him is if (some of) the money from the sale of those players is being used to pay this month's wages, what are the Club going to use to pay November's?

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Quote: Mr Dog "An obvious question you probably should have asked him is if (some of) the money from the sale of those players is being used to pay this month's wages, what are the Club going to use to pay November's?'"


Well, there won't be much to find as we only have about 8 players

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Quote: bullinenemyland "Are you sure about that? I seem to remember Craig Harrison saying something along the lines of Fev having over £100k of talent in the squad but not paying a single penny for them.

I could be mistaken but I think the way the system works is if you DR a player then that's at no cost but loans you must agree the wages (a bit like Leigh did with Kevin Brown and Ryan Brierley).

I cannot see how a club can claim to save on the salary cap simply by offloading players on a week by week basis if not selected.'"


Having re-read the relevant section in the Op Rules (highly recommended bedtime reading for insomniacs!) it would appear that you are correct in that offsetting payment for players on DR is only allowed if the parent club is a Championship club. However, there is specific mention of C and L1 clubs including any payments made to the parent club for, or match payments to, players on loan or DR to them. I very much doubt Fev have had all the DR players for free (Singleton, and quite possibly C Smith, an exception as that really was as a favour to Leeds), much cheaper than their actual real cost yes. I'd be surprised if anyone other than a few at both clubs know the reality of the agreement.

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Quote: paulwalker71 "Well, there won't be much to find as we only have about 8 players'"


I thought contracts ran till 30th November?

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Quote: Mr Dog "I thought contracts ran till 30th November?'"


Ah yes, Roger did correct me on that previously icon_eek.gif

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