| FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Court Cases Brewing - Trouble ahead |
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Surely if the new club were having to buy assets and IP (via the RFL), then that is another indicator that there was no TUPE involved anyway. Clearly things weren't transferred between the two companies, they were bought from the administrator. If they were buying the logo and name, they certainly weren't transferring staff to a new parent company.
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| Quote: HamsterChops "Surely if the new club were having to buy assets and IP (via the RFL), then that is another indicator that there was no TUPE involved anyway. Clearly things weren't transferred between the two companies, they were bought from the administrator. If they were buying the logo and name, they certainly weren't transferring staff to a new parent company.'"
Agreed! Any claim aimed at the club could only be based on a 'collusion' ticket between new co and the RFL which resulted in employees and/or creditors being shafted, alleged! |
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"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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Pretty difficult to prove without a smoking gun.
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I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains.
"The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred."
Link https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/ ... businesses |
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I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains.
"The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred."
Link https://www.gov.uk/transfers-takeovers/ ... businesses | |
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| Quote: Nelson "I think that TUPE regulations do apply (see below) as the business had a different owner but when insolvent/liquidated they are relevant when the business remains.
"The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred."
Link
Well you learn something every day. On reading below it's a lot greyer than I believed, so there could be a case to answer. I guess it depends on the definition of rescued, taken over or transferred. But, employees could only claim for the loss they incurred, so player x had a 2 year contract with BBN for 2 years at £40k per year, but accepted a 2 year contract at £30k per year, he could only claim £20k. Also, I believe all the players who left before new co was set up would struggle to get anything, they took their chance on gaining employment before new co could offer them anything.
Perhaps that's what Chisholmwas doing at Belle Vue on Sunday
6. Insolvent businesses
If the employer is insolvent and the business is being transferred or taken over by another company, the protection employees get is different from in a normal transfer.
The employees are unlikely to be protected under TUPE if the business is closing down. However, TUPE regulations will normally apply if it’s being rescued and taken over or transferred.
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Given the newco's lawyers don't seem to have a clue about how contracts, visas or other legal documents work I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up somehow paying the salaries for the entire championship!
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7. Employees have rights if their employer is insolvent and owes them money. Employees can claim for this whether they’re protected under TUPE or not.
In a TUPE-protected transfer, the new employer must pay any amount left over after employees have been paid from the government’s National Insurance fund.
However as Redeveready said, all the staff got made redundant by the administrator. I think at the very worst the new co will have to pay Decembers wages.
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I think there may be some interesting revelations regarding the RFL and their desired/eventual outcome.
Imagine if players and staff could have been tuped, but for some reason, the potential 'New Company' was refused a seat at the table?
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Glad this has come up. The season is a write off as far as rugby is concerned and we are all probably more versed in legal and financial matters anyway after the last five years.
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Further to my last post regarding TUPE . The extract below from ACAS seems to confirm that Bulls newco are potentially liable as they fit as having taken over all the relevant bullet points.
Business transfers
The TUPE regulations apply if a business or part of a business moves to a new owner or merges with another business to make a brand new employer. A part of a business might for example be a distribution function of a larger organisation.
Under the TUPE regulations, a business is not judged by its name but by the use made of its assets such as the:
* premises
* equipment
* work in progress
* goodwill (such as the value of a brand name or a customer base)
* intellectual property
* employees.
m.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/j/p/Hand ... -Guide.pdf |
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Further to my last post regarding TUPE . The extract below from ACAS seems to confirm that Bulls newco are potentially liable as they fit as having taken over all the relevant bullet points.
Business transfers
The TUPE regulations apply if a business or part of a business moves to a new owner or merges with another business to make a brand new employer. A part of a business might for example be a distribution function of a larger organisation.
Under the TUPE regulations, a business is not judged by its name but by the use made of its assets such as the:
* premises
* equipment
* work in progress
* goodwill (such as the value of a brand name or a customer base)
* intellectual property
* employees.
m.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/j/p/Hand ... -Guide.pdf | |
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| Quote: Nothus "The article in the guardian mentions that some of the individuals making the claims are being represented by the same solicitor that is dealing with the Cas/Denny Solomona case.
Those muppets on twitter might not realise the difference but I'm pretty sure that solicitor knows what's up.
The only thing I can think of that might drag the newco into this is whether there was any tupe stuff going on between the two companies. We all thought BBN Ltd was liquidated but that doesn't appear to be the case, so who knows.'"
I would have thought the only TUPEing to be going on was when Thorne promised to sign everyone on their current deals at that meeting. It does leave a sense of what could have been had he been given the club |
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Oh great. Meanwhile the administrator who told the staff to carry on trading while he earnt £210 per hour according to his report, and Marc Green who signed all the bloody players to the contracts won't have to pay a penny.
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| Quote: Nelson "Further to my last post regarding TUPE . The extract below from ACAS seems to confirm that Bulls newco are potentially liable as they fit as having taken over all the relevant bullet points.
Business transfers
The TUPE regulations apply if a business or part of a business moves to a new owner or merges with another business to make a brand new employer. A part of a business might for example be a distribution function of a larger organisation.
Under the TUPE regulations, a business is not judged by its name but by the use made of its assets such as the:
* premises
* equipment
* work in progress
* goodwill (such as the value of a brand name or a customer base)
* intellectual property
* employees.
It mentions using assts not having bought them, and there wasn't any goodwill at that point!!! Also there was no business as a going concern, so it couldn't move! The ACAS guidance doesn't cover a business setting up from new, which new co did, when the previous business ceased to exist. We know that because big Nige and Ralph told us
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Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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Unless and until we know what specific legal claims are actually directed at the new Bulls, speculation is pretty pointless.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
Build Bridges NOT Walls:1271.jpg |
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| Quote: Bull Mania "Oh great. Meanwhile the administrator who told the staff to carry on trading while he earnt £210 per hour according to his report, and Marc Green who signed all the bloody players to the contracts won't have to pay a penny.'"
If the liquidation really isn't yet complete then we must assume he is STILL earning £210 per hour... |
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