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And if a European player challenged the restriction in court, would they be likely to win?

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Quote: debaser "So what is the point of the non-fed trained rule? To stop teams getting lots of English players who were trained in another country? Or am I being really dim?
its more about the benefits of having club trained players, the fed trained status is a recognition that players may move as we know only too well Wardle the most recent example. Non Fed is simply what you are if you are not club or Fed trained. this is why:

Club Trained Player rule
The purpose behind the ‘Club Trained Player’ rule is to encourage clubs to develop and better their own players so that there are more players coming into the game so that standards improve.
A further purpose is to afford an opportunity to junior players to play in top level competitive matches in order to aid their development and ensure the development of Rugby League.
Club Trained Player
A Club Trained Player is one who has been on a club’s register for three full seasons before the end of the season in which he ceases to be eligible by age for Reserve Grade Rugby League.
Federation Trained Player
A Federation Trained Player is one who has been on the register of one or more member clubs in the same Rugby League Federation as the club he wishes to join (Great Britain for the majority, France in the case of players joining Catalan Dragons) for three full seasons before the end of the season in which he ceases to be eligible by age for Reserve Grade Rugby League.
Non-Federation Trained Player
A Player who does not meet either of the definitions above.

So it does not include a french youngster coming to our Academy as its not about nationality, and its the same in football where Arsenals academy is full of foreign players that will count as home grown.

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Quote: debaser "And if a European player challenged the restriction in court, would they be likely to win?'"
No. its certainly been looked at whether it is a restriction, but its more about the practicalities: our academy surely would welcome a talented European or Kolpak youth, but would they and most likely their family want to come to live in England?

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Ok, so a French player, born in France, French passport, moved to New Zealand where he trained then came to England to play.
So non-quota as French, non-fed trained though as not trained in Europe, so could be excluded from playing as he would not get into team due to non-fed status? So he must have a legal challenge there as he is a French man being denied his freedom of trade due to his nationality?
Or as I missing the point?

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Quote: debaser "Ok, so a French player, born in France, French passport, moved to New Zealand where he trained then came to England to play.
So non-quota as French, non-fed trained though as not trained in Europe, so could be excluded from playing as he would not get into team due to non-fed status? So he must have a legal challenge there as he is a French man being denied his freedom of trade due to his nationality?
Or as I missing the point?'"


Yes you are. His nationality is irrelevant. He would not be club trained, nor federation trained, regardless of whether he was born in Rochdale or Rorotunga. He is not on either of those quotas [idespite[/i being a French national, not [ibecause[/i of it.

Nor does it even prevent him from playing. Of course he could still play for any of the clubs, the only impediment he MAY face is that obviously no team whose quotas are already full will sign him, but that's NOT because he's a French national.

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When I first read these definitions, my first thought was that it would probably work as a means of getting round the employment laws since, as has been pointed out, neither nationality nor ethnicity is used as a criterion. I do though, keep coming back to how it would sound when when spit out by some sneering, slick Willie solicitor trying to make his point in court. It would be interesting, that's for sure.

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Quote: Bulliac "When I first read these definitions, my first thought was that it would probably work as a means of getting round the employment laws since, as has been pointed out, neither nationality nor ethnicity is used as a criterion. I do though, keep coming back to how it would sound when when spit out by some sneering, slick Willie solicitor trying to make his point in court. It would be interesting, that's for sure.'"
Yes I have revisited the stuff on the web and one of your Willies (Wupert actually) does in fact say it could be seen as a restraint of trade, not just for eg a French player but for other British players, such as older ones or rugby union players. but the RFL have put in a clause that it is the spirit of the rule that is important, and Alex Ball presumably a case in point as he has not got three years rfl etc etc. I think that the reason for it not being challenged tho is down to the practicalities, I would love it if there were millions of talented Luxembourg German Italian etc etc young league players or French players trained in NZ all wanting to bring their talents here, but no there are not. Interesting to know why Elima is not non fed trained as he must have trained in France, probably due to the transitional arrangements that covered Jeffries.

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Quote: Bulliac " I do though, keep coming back to how it would sound when when spit out by some sneering, slick Willie solicitor trying to make his point '"


Did the post above your's inspire that statement......? eusa_think.gif

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Quote: martinwildbull "Yes I have revisited the stuff on the web and one of your Willies (Wupert actually) does in fact say it could be seen as a restraint of trade, not just for eg a French player but for other British players, such as older ones or rugby union players. but the RFL have put in a clause that it is the spirit of the rule that is important, and Alex Ball presumably a case in point as he has not got three years rfl etc etc. I think that the reason for it not being challenged tho is down to the practicalities, I would love it if there were millions of talented Luxembourg German Italian etc etc young league players or French players trained in NZ all wanting to bring their talents here, but no there are not. Interesting to know why Elima is not non fed trained as he must have trained in France, probably due to the transitional arrangements that covered Jeffries.'"



In general any player that the non-fed quota could apply to who was already in Superleague when the non-fed quota was introduced (feb 2008 from memory) gets a dispensation as long as they stay in superleague. Its actually a little unclear as to status of players that were in SL prior to quota coming in but had already gone back to NRL when quota came in. There was discussion earlier in year as to whether Hull had managed to get a dispensation for Heremeai (sp) due to him playing in SL previously.
Dont think it was ever clarified.

In Elimas case french federation trained is classed exactly the same as uk fed trained for quota purposes. They brought this in last year to encourage player movement between uk and france. Although Elima may actually be uk fed trained anyway, How young was he when he came over to wakefield?.

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Quote: Ferocious Aardvark "Yes you are. His nationality is irrelevant. He would not be club trained, nor federation trained, regardless of whether he was born in Rochdale or Rorotunga. He is not on either of those quotas [idespite[/i being a French national, not [ibecause[/i of it.

Nor does it even prevent him from playing. Of course he could still play for any of the clubs, the only impediment he MAY face is that obviously no team whose quotas are already full will sign him, but that's NOT because he's a French national.'"


No I am even more confused now.

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Quote: tigertot "Did the post above your's inspire that statement......?
One has to express some small degree of concern at your apparent familiarity with "slick willies"?

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Quote: Adeybull "One has to express some small degree of concern at your apparent familiarity with "slick willies"?'"

That must be it. eusa_think.gif It must be one of my slower days but I couldn't (still can't) work out what TT was alluding to in his reply.
Not like the Tigertot to be obtuse.......

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Quote: Bulliac "That must be it.
Look if you continue being this slow I'm going to the Cas board, then you will be sorry.

Re-arrange these words:
Willie sneering Aardvark solicitor Ferocious slick

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Quote: tigertot "Look if you continue being this slow I'm going to the Cas board, then you will be sorry.

Re-arrange these words

I think you are being quite unfair, describing the 'Vark in such damning terms. But I guess you do know him better than me so who am I to say?

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Quote: tigertot "Look if you continue being this slow I'm going to the Cas board, then you will be sorry.

Re-arrange these words
icon_eek.gif
I now consider my education to be complete..(well, as complete as it's ever likely to be) icon_lol.gif

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