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Quote: bobsmyuncle "The RFL seems to have missed the point that SL is not a financially sustainable model. The gap between the have's and have not as much's continues to grow.
Despite long term previous efforts the game is woefully parochial. Played in two counties + enclaves in London and Perpignan.
There should be much more for the RFL to consider than a shuffling of leagues'"


How many people actually know what the RFL actually do? I am in no doubt they are fully aware of the problems affecting the game. It has been pro for nearly 120 years, we've had some good people in charge with good contacts. If Richard Lewis struggled I am fairly sure Nigel Wood is going to as well. We have the best sport in the world but are stuck in a catch 22 of not being able to get the publicity to get the revenue to buy the publicity. The RFL is not just about raising money, however.

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Quote: tigertot "I doubt these proposals, if they actually exist, have been put out without discussing at first with SL clubs. They will in nay case have to be endorsed by SL clubs. It does sound a bit daft to me but I will reserve the faux outrage & hysteria until I see actual proposals.'"


Thing in the T and A about Omar and Ryan being at a meeting where it was discussed.

On your last post, I note your regular stance in defence of the RFL in the face of frequently irrational criticism but I think there's a case to say the RFL's handling of the Bulls administration (particularly the secret loan and buying/seizure of the ground) and the failure to find a sponsor of any description for the elite comp and the world cup does not fill one with confidence.

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The loan from the RFL was not a secret one, it was registered at Companies House for all to see. The security for the loan given by the Bulls was the ground lease at Odsal
Without this loan the Bulls would have gone belly up in 2011.
In early 2012 the RFL must have become aware that their loan was at risk and thus called in their security.
They cancelled the loan and took possession of the the asset which had been pledged - the lease of Odsal.
This was neither buying nor seizure, just a commercial decision to protect the RFL funds.

If recriminations are needed then it should not be to the RFL on this occasion. They supported the Bulls survival with £1.2m of loans.
Ask rather how a Bulls administration could run up such a humongous debt that the £1.2M loan from the RFL and the £500,000 from the fans appeal still left them with over £500,00 of debts

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Quote: bobsmyuncle "The loan from the RFL was not a secret one, it was registered at Companies House for all to see. The security for the loan given by the Bulls was the ground lease at Odsal
Without this loan the Bulls would have gone belly up in 2011.
In early 2012 the RFL must have become aware that their loan was at risk and thus called in their security.
They cancelled the loan and took possession of the the asset which had been pledged - the lease of Odsal.
This was neither buying nor seizure, just a commercial decision to protect the RFL funds.

If recriminations are needed then it should not be to the RFL on this occasion. They supported the Bulls survival with £1.2m of loans.
Ask rather how a Bulls administration could run up such a humongous debt that the £1.2M loan from the RFL and the £500,000 from the fans appeal still left them with over £500,00 of debts'"


One of the reasons was that the RFL lent them £700,000 without any reference to any of the other clubs or a single public pronouncement or any type of audit - a decision that has never been explained. Had they not done so the debt would never have reached such proportions and the club would still own its own lease.

Taking possession of the asset and seizure are pretty much the same thing.

They didn't support the Bulls, they gave idiots more rope and are complicit in turning an administration into a near liquidation.

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Quote: tigertot "How many people actually know what the RFL actually do? I am in no doubt they are fully aware of the problems affecting the game. It has been pro for nearly 120 years, we've had some good people in charge with good contacts. If Richard Lewis struggled I am fairly sure Nigel Wood is going to as well. We have the best sport in the world but are stuck in a catch 22 of not being able to get the publicity to get the revenue to buy the publicity. The RFL is not just about raising money, however.'"


I think the intentions have been well trailed on Sky to be honest so, unless they haven't a clue, we seem to be discussing the actual thinking of the RFL. That said, as I understand it, it is still a work in progress, so we'll wait and see.
Incidentally, the game has only really been 'pro' since SL began, not 120 years. Originally, the whole raison d'être for the split was to compensate players for missing shifts at work not to turn the game professional, and there was little more than basic expenses paid. Even up to the eighties the game was only semi-pro with full time players specifically outlawed in the laws of the game, though I guess the odd antipodean wife had a pretty decent job in the club shop.... eusa_shhh.gif

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Quote: M@islebugs "Thing in the T and A about Omar and Ryan being at a meeting where it was discussed.

On your last post, I note your regular stance in defence of the RFL in the face of frequently irrational criticism but I think there's a case to say the RFL's handling of the Bulls administration (particularly the secret loan and buying/seizure of the ground) and the failure to find a sponsor of any description for the elite comp and the world cup does not fill one with confidence.'"


I certainly do not know the details of the dealings between the RFL & Bulls, nor am I particularly keen to learn more. But I am fairly sure the Bulls wouldn't be around as we know them today without the RFL.
Regarding sponsorship, I was under the impression they have a number of sponsors for SL, but no main sponsor. I have no idea of what efforts they have made to find such but would think it has been pretty high on their agenda. Last season's was a brave & innovative decision, if ultimately flawed. No-one can tell if that had an impact on recruitment &/or what has been offered this year.

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That is pretty much the league set up that was proposed and rejected for Scottish Football, based on a system tried in both Austria and Switzerland. The Swiss managed three seasons the Austrians two.

In reality the four part time championship clubs will be unlikely to compete with the four, full time super league clubs over 14 games. Which either means much more money is required to make the Championship full time or we will have some part time clubs in the Super League?

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It is worth repeating that the one option we are all focussing on (splitting 2 leagues into groups of 8 ) is the most odd of three being presented. We don't have any reason to think this one is any more likely than the other two.

I suspect that this option is just too weird to be a flyer and that we'll end up with a conventionally structured two tier superleague, of a size to be agreed, with regular promotion and relegation.

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Quote: Pumpetypump "
I suspect that this option is just too weird to be a flyer and that we'll end up with a conventionally structured two tier superleague, of a size to be agreed, with regular promotion and relegation.'"


Sounds likely to me. Question is, are we better off in the second tier or the first? Getting pummelled by the cash rich clubs of Wigan, Leeds, Wire etc each week doesn't sound that appealing right now!

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Quote: Bully_Boxer "Sounds likely to me. Question is, are we better off in the second tier or the first? Getting pummelled by the cash rich clubs of Wigan, Leeds, Wire etc each week doesn't sound that appealing right now!'"


If it isn't too much of a problem financially, I think it would be really fun being in Superleague 2 playing Fax, Feath and others that we don't get to visit anymore. Might SL2 be the league to get your house in order and your structures in place ready to really compete upon getting into SL1?

That said, if its based on the finishing places in 2014, then there's every chance we'd get in the 10 team S1 and face the might of the top teams. Imagine 2014, we are in 10th going into the last game of the season with a huge points difference advantage over Cas in 11th. We go darn the lane and lose 258-0. No one can prove a thing.

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Quote: tigertot "Regarding sponsorship, I was under the impression they have a number of sponsors for SL, but no main sponsor. I have no idea of what efforts they have made to find such but would think it has been pretty high on their agenda. Last season's was a brave & innovative decision, if ultimately flawed.'"


It was a stupid idea because it devalued the competition by essentially giving it away for free. Why would anyone pay when they were willing to swap it for a few painted lorries last year? Contra deals are poisonous to any business or brand that values its product.

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Quote: GiantDee "That is pretty much the league set up that was proposed and rejected for Scottish Football, based on a system tried in both Austria and Switzerland. The Swiss managed three seasons the Austrians two.

In reality the four part time championship clubs will be unlikely to compete with the four, full time super league clubs over 14 games. Which either means much more money is required to make the Championship full time or we will have some part time clubs in the Super League?'"


That pretty much sums up my feelings to be honest.

The idea that any division comprising of full time clubs playing part timers has so many obvious flaws it's too silly to laugh at imo and the notion that this is going to lead to "competitive" matches is frankly risible.

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Quote: Bulliac "That pretty much sums up my feelings to be honest.

The idea that any division comprising of full time clubs playing part timers has so many obvious flaws it's too silly to laugh at imo and the notion that this is going to lead to "competitive" matches is frankly risible.'"


I don't understand what you mean. The clubs are part-time NOW, but wouldn't be if admitted to SL1 or 2.

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Quote: Pumpetypump "I don't understand what you mean. The clubs are part-time NOW, but wouldn't be if admitted to SL1 or 2.'"

SL1 clubs would be full time. Don't think they've made it a necessity for all the SL2 clubs to be full time. Sounds like SL2 will be a mix of full and part time.

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Quote: mat "SL1 clubs would be full time. Don't think they've made it a necessity for all the SL2 clubs to be full time. Sounds like SL2 will be a mix of full and part time.'"


Well they might not mandate SL2 being full time but its a no brainer surely. No one tells me I have to breath every few seconds but I've come to the decision that it would be daft not to.

I can't see anyone in SL2 being part-time.

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