Yeah but it's the same for most sides, they don't bring half backs through that often. Once every ten years it seems. Beyond Sutcliffe and the other lad that have come through recently who have they brought through that's realistically going to move Shinfield, Burrow and Maguire on?

Is there any club that have a 7 playing for them that has been brought through their own system, stayed there and then thinking back has that same club produced anybody of note that has longevity in that position with the previous ten seasons?

I think it's shared belief that if you produce one academy player for the first team per season then you've done a good job. So by that reckoning if we assume a minimum squad size of 25 which is probably considered on the small side you're going to see a Scrum half once in every 25 seasons? 12 if you've divide by 2. Seems as if they're gold dust really, doesn't it?

In terms of longevity I suspect Wigan have the best record over the last thirty years or so, and that will be with 6s rather than 7s.

I wonder how much of the left channel, right channel, 6's and 7s are basically the same attitude that permeates the entire game now (in Aus as well as here) is down to exactly this.

Cain didn't really come through our academy. We got him in a swap deal from Wakefield in exchange for Kieran Hyde.
When we got him, he was a year or two away from being ready, but supposedly Mick Potter never thought his defence was up to playing at first team level, hence why he only played a couple of games (one of which was in the cup). Same reason Kyle Briggs never got much of a chance, Potter didn't rate his defensive capabilities.

It was John Monie who said that you can’t really expect more than a couple of players per season to graduate to become 1st teamers. That was at Wigan back in the 1990s so a long time back but they had their pick of juniors throughout the game due to the lack of a salary cap. A fair few came from this side of the Pennines. Jason Robinson, Simon Haughton off the top of my head.

Now there’s more competition for the best young players it’s really down to the systems at each club to make the most out of what they have.

B4Cs point about how many clubs bringing through their own halfbacks is bang on. Hardly anyone does it. It’s a key position and teams are less likely to allow a player to grow into the role. How many British scrum halves of the past 30 years came through and were doing the business in their teens or early 20s? Not many. Andy Gregory, Bobbie Goulding and Shaun Edwards and that’s about it and they were ages back. Sean Long was 24 before he was a regular at Saints. Deacon was 23 before he came through with us properly.

Interesting observation that Long and Deacon didn't break the first team until they were 23/24. Just shows you that the ability to read the game/what's in front of you and then make an almost instantaneous yet composed decision at high speed in an elite game of RL can take a long time to bring out of someone.

Must admit I thought Deacon was younger than that. IIRC he was a teenager when he came here so I take back my statement about him almost fully formed when he came here.

(Cue Tigertot)

Or one of the Georgesons

I might be knocking on a bit but my lips is still young innit.

Who was that Australian Scrum Half we signed? Oh that was him " Matt Orford" and we know how that one worked out don't we? We've signed plenty over recent years and most of them are playing for rival Teams. We don't have a good record with Scrum Halves over recent years.

Deacs was 19 when he debuted in 1998 and IMO he became a fully fledged 1st team regular in 2002.

So he was 23 and Long was 24. It shows the insanity of having to make your mind up about players at 19.

Unfortunately coaches seem obsessed with playing back-rowers at HB rather than a young actual HB. Lowes with Addy & Purtell instead of giving young Adam Brook. Cunningham choosing Wilkin/Turner instead of Fages. They're scared of Young HBs making mistakes and decide to go with a first team player who has no creativity. But hey he can defend. Then said coach says in his post match interview the team didn't create anything and we were sloppy in attack.

Why we didn't give Brook a go last year beggars belief. We had a perfect opportunity to let him develop and make mistake. He was a real gem in our 19s and looked to have plenty of potential. But nah Purtell and Addy are the solution!

Times have changed a lot in terms of physical conditioning. In the 80s and 90s halfbacks usually weighed around 12-13st. Shaun Edwards was 11st! Forwards were rarely over 16st and very rarely over 17st.

The smaller bloke wasn't at such a great strength advantage and wasn't such a defensive weakness.

Nowadays the difference is much greater. The little Halfback is targeted by 17st runners. Backs are built like forwards were. He has to be able to defend.

Most smaller lads don't finish growing until their early 20s. It's no surprise that halfbacks aren't coming through at 19 years of age.

They're rarely physically mature enough to cope with 1st team rugby. Attacking wise they may be ready in some respects but defensively they're not. You have a duty of care to these lads.

You could see with southernwood how slight he was. He played at Cas and they just charged at him everytime they got the ball. To be fair to the lad I thought he handled himself well considering the size of the men that were charging him.

Somebody like Southernwood would be ideal. Had chance to physically mature and used to a tough division.

After the club and Bullbuilder supported him since he signed for the club in 2011.
The way he was ruthlessly binned by Jimmy Lowes cuts deep amongst a lot of supporters.

Those games last year against Workington and Whitehaven is when we should have given him a go at scrum half.

I do agree Bullseye but on the other side of the coin, Sam Tomkins particularly in the first couple of years didn't look anything like a rugby player physically. I think we're still waiting for Rob Burrow to be physically ready for full time rugby

Yes HBs they need to defend, but at the same time most of our team should be dropped based on their defending in recent weeks.

I want my HB to be able to kick, pass, organise and put a team mate through a gap. Danny Addy and Gaskell both miss plenty of tackles. But Addy can't really do any of what I just mentioned consistently.

Brooks been playing for Keighley in league 1 regularly so to have given him a few games against Hunslet and Workington when we absolutely dominated wouldn't have done him any harm.

It's the fact we didn't even give him a chance that annoys me when being in the championship was the perfect opportunity to do so. we found ourselves in a situation with a loose forward and centre as our HB partnership for a lot of last year and no number 7 for all of this year. It's bonkers.

The young lads we've given debuts this year have all held their own. Im sure Adam Brook would have been ok with him and Gaskell at 6&7 while we could still have been on the look out for a more experienced HB if needed and one became available. At the moment we've no one and might not get one as no one might be available.