FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Latest financial situation - all posts here
716 posts in 49 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach5880No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Well let's just hope that if we do end up in admin, that these investors with the £800k waiting are still interested.

All signs point towards a pre-pack? Probably our best case scenario at this point in time I'd say, although it would be a serious strain on Adey's morals icon_wink.gif

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: isaac1 "its my understanding that its common practice for an insolvency firm to first of all conduct a thourough look at the books, followed by advising the club on its next steps. IIRC, the statement / notice put out last week, enables the club to appoint its own preffered administrators, whereas if we'd had HMRC issue a winding up order, they could have appointed the administrator for us.

This way, admin can be quicker and we can be out of it sooner as the administrator is more familiar with the business.'"

HMRC cannot appoint an administrator. They would need the High Court to appoint following petition from creditor/s.

I always said I assumed it would be an insolvency practitioner conducting the "Review". Doubtless one reason they strove so hard to keep the identity secret.

This all looks like its playing out to the conclusion that so many felt was per-ordained. I am working on the basis that there is no way you can trust a word of what anyone is saying, in the game that is now approaching the endgame.

Seems increasingly probable to me that we will have half the team next year we currently have. And may well be playing at VP. All those who were so sure of a bright new future under Caisley, a return to the shining city on the hill, doubtless still subscribe to that view, notwithstanding their relative silence of late?

RankPostsTeam
International Star1704
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201113 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2023Dec 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



hopefully the RFL can shift the lease on Odsal on at a profit, if not they may not look on the "New Bulls" favourably if any of the existing members are part of the new set up.....

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman6038No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200223 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2017Feb 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Adeybull "

Seems increasingly probable to me that we will have half the team next year we currently have. And may well be playing at VP. '"


I still find it almost impossible to believe that the RFL would allow us to play in SL at VP having just forked out £1.25m for the Odsal lease. I know that there are scenarios whereby they could sell the lease for a profit. But I just cannot see them taking the flak they would undoubtedly get from fans of other clubs if they were to take that gamble.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



I know. Which was why I seriously doubted VP could be a consideration.

But if we see a multi-party deal which sees the RFL clear a profit, then the flak would more likely come from Bulls fans? Bearing in mind that the Odsal purchase was done under Lewis, so they could justify distancing themselves from that decision if they so chose? And given the Future Bulls could well be the runt of the future SL litter, doubt any other clubs' fans would perceive much advantage to us from the Odsal deal?

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach9986No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2019Aug 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Adeybull "
All those who were so sure of a bright new future under Caisley, a return to the shining city on the hill, doubtless still subscribe to that view, notwithstanding their relative silence of late?'"


Is this opposed to the Golden Years we had under Hood's reign. Consecutive season's outside the 8, the quality team of average journey men we had the pleasure of watching, all the best prospects getting sold off...?
If only we had tightened our belts during the last few glory years, we would not be where we are now.
Oh hang on....

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Nothus "How can we be spending £200k a month on wages? That just seems like an insanely high amount to me.

I just don't believe a single word of that article at all. What a mess.'"

£200k a month is only £2.4m per year, which considering the salary cap is £1.65m sounds quite a low figure if Bradford are spending near the cap.

I don't understand though, how a wage bill of £200k per month leaves a PAYE tax of £98k, that sounds very high to me.

I don't see how Bradford would be able to quickly or easily reduce the players wage bill significantly by next season without going into administration. Admittedly some players could be sold, but the players in high demand are Bradfords young academy products that the article said would be retained. There might be the odd one or two who could find other SL clubs willing to pay them a similar salary like Jeffries or Elima, but plenty of the others would require paying off.

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member11377
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Him "I don't understand though, how a wage bill of £200k per month leaves a PAYE tax of £98k, that sounds very high to me. '"


I imagine it's PAYE and NIC (both employee and employers) which sounds about right to me.

Him
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14970No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2021Nov 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: FearTheVee "I imagine it's PAYE and NIC (both employee and employers) which sounds about right to me.'"

Ah that could be it, the article just says PAYE and doesn't mention NIC but that could explain it.

RankPostsTeam
International Star1795No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2021Jan 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



with so many out of contract at the end of the season a chunk could be taken out, but as you say possibly not enough. Lestrange and Kearney would have to go though that may not be easy, theres unfortunately a question mark over Purtell. But when there are 80+ stadium staff I would rather cut such overhead costs first then see what trimming of the players is needed, rather than launch into the players costs first off. and the overhead costs need to be addressed, so why not now rather than later? Cutting player costs is lazy cost cutting, not sensible cost cutting.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2466
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Oct 2024Sep 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Its all here for those to read - Taken DIrect from Accounts filed at Companies House, and nothing to do with any Harris payouts to Leeds. The simple thing is that the turnover has dropped £600K from the previous 2 years and you have FAILED to reduce the Cost of Sales (Players Wages, etc) accordingly, while also failing to reduce Staff Wages and overheads.

Totally miss-managed

Date Of Accounts........31/12/2010........31/12/2009..........31/12/2008
Turnover....................£3,956,715..........£4,600,518.........£4,639,613
Cost of Sales..............£3,127,144..........£3,364,438..........£3,271,108
Gross Profit...................£829,571..........£1,236,080.........£1,368,505
Wages & Salaries.........£2,447,753..........£2,399,834..........£2,314,391
Directors Emoluments......£16,978............-..........................-
Operating Profit...........-£373,530..........-£76,455.............-£16,302
Depreciation................£101,518............£92,306.............£103,859
Audit Fees....................£12,500...........£10,500..............£11,500
Interest Payment.............£3,267............£2,289...............£1,950
Pre Tax Profit..............-£311,403...........-£78,728.............-£10,105
Taxation .....................-..........................£6,519...........-£6,946
Profit After Tax.............-£311,403...........-£72,209............-£17,051

Also if you are expecting £1.2 mil in losses this year, then a further reduction of £900K in Turnover, or increase in overheads/players wages has occured.

RankPostsTeam
International Star17982
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Homer Simpson "Its all here for those to read - Taken DIrect from Accounts filed at Companies House, and nothing to do with any Harris payouts to Leeds. The simple thing is that the turnover has dropped £600K from the previous 2 years and you have FAILED to reduce the Cost of Sales (Players Wages, etc) accordingly, while also failing to reduce Staff Wages and overheads.

Totally miss-managed

Date Of Accounts........31/12/2010........31/12/2009..........31/12/2008
Turnover....................£3,956,715..........£4,600,518.........£4,639,613
Cost of Sales..............£3,127,144..........£3,364,438..........£3,271,108
Gross Profit...................£829,571..........£1,236,080.........£1,368,505
Wages & Salaries.........£2,447,753..........£2,399,834..........£2,314,391
Directors Emoluments......£16,978............-..........................-
Operating Profit...........-£373,530..........-£76,455.............-£16,302
Depreciation................£101,518............£92,306.............£103,859
Audit Fees....................£12,500...........£10,500..............£11,500
Interest Payment.............£3,267............£2,289...............£1,950
Pre Tax Profit..............-£311,403...........-£78,728.............-£10,105
Taxation .....................-..........................£6,519...........-£6,946
Profit After Tax.............-£311,403...........-£72,209............-£17,051

Also if you are expecting £1.2 mil in losses this year, then a further reduction of £900K in Turnover, or increase in overheads/players wages has occured.'"


Although these are only basic figures, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to spot the problem. Massive drop in turnover and no reduction in costs, however as with all accounts, these are 12 months out of date and they dont show the figures for 2011.

RankPostsTeam
International Star351No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201113 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Feb 2019Feb 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



when is the deadline now then and is there any more fund raisding the club are doing. I dont know about everyone else but to save our club I would certainly but some more money in.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach4035
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Jan 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Cleck Bulls "when is the deadline now then and is there any more fund raisding the club are doing. I dont know about everyone else but to save our club I would certainly but some more money in.'"


Next Tuesday will be 2 weeks (10 working days) since we gave notice of intention to appoint administrators to protect the club. So I suspect there will be announcements before (if positive) or on Tuesday (if negative).

I wouldn't put anymore cash in until I am certain of what I am being told....and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

RankPostsTeam
International Star1795No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2021Jan 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Homer it is there for all to read, but some are better at reading than others. You say that income fell by £600k, however in 2010 there was no deferred Odsal settlement income in the sales figure, of £300k, so the drop in "real" income is £300k. Cost of sales reduced by £200K, and admin costs by £100K, which if I add the figures up looks like costs were cut to match the reduction in sales. As previously posted, "profit is an opinion cash flow is a fact", so go back to the figures and check out the operating cash flow figures. The reason for not cutting costs since these accounts - in other words players costs - in the last two years is because Hood and Bennett took the riskier course of trying to increase fan numbers and ultimately income through the pledge scheme, which has floundered on a combination of whining Aussies and serious depletion of the squad through injury. So you can criticize them for that strategic choice and their failure to implement that strategy, which was to increase turnover to cover those costs. And before you criticize the decision you have to go back a couple of years. the team with a massive number of young players were in free fall with a coach that fans wanted rid of, sales going down etc. as shown on the rather more comprehensive dashboard below. So rather than cut costs they tried to get an injection of cash in through pledge 1, get a decent coach, and start the club on a virtuous circle rather than continuing descent. That meant trying to keep players rather than sell them. As you will see from the middle graph on the left, the red line is cost of sales and it take a big hike upwards when we moved back in to Odsal, which has never come back down. the extra Odsal costs over and above VP looks about £750K judging from the increase in direct costs between 2002-3, which was not all player costs as the staff numbers do not show that. the staff costs line by the way in that graph is an extra line and is the total of the staff costs within the Cost of Sales line and the Admin Costs. So now that the policy of trying to get the club on an upward trend has failed, we now have the less riskier and easier plan, of reducing costs and accepting that we are a bottom third team for a few more years yet. Hence the discussions about moving to VP, cutting the squad etc. (I havent seen any posts about cutting the coaching staff, JD would be a lot cheaper than MP wouldnt he and not doing a bad job.)



716 posts in 49 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
716 posts in 49 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


1.806640625:10
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
25m
Film game
karetaker
5859
31m
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
56m
Realistic targets for 2025
Tarquin Fueg
140
Recent
2025 Squad Numbers
Tarquin Fueg
5
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
546
Recent
Pre Season - 2025
ComeOnYouUll
211
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
MeanwoodGuy
2630
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Film game
karetaker
5859
1m
2025 Kit
dddooommm
16
1m
Pre Season - 2025
ComeOnYouUll
211
2m
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
2m
Super League
FIL
25
5m
How many games will we win
Wollo-Wollo-
54
5m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40832
9m
2025 Recruitment
bowlinboy
228
11m
Leeds away first up
FIL
51
13m
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Tarquin Fueg
5
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
vastman
48
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M 1,896 80,15614,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R1
18:00
Toulouse
v
Widnes
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
       Championship 2025-R1
15:00
Bradford
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Doncaster
15:00
Oldham
v
York
15:00
Sheffield
v
Halifax
15:00
Barrow
v
Hunslet
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
       League One 2025-R1
15:00
Cornwall
v
Workington
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Crusaders
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield-St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
25m
Film game
karetaker
5859
31m
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
56m
Realistic targets for 2025
Tarquin Fueg
140
Recent
2025 Squad Numbers
Tarquin Fueg
5
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
546
Recent
Pre Season - 2025
ComeOnYouUll
211
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
MeanwoodGuy
2630
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Film game
karetaker
5859
1m
2025 Kit
dddooommm
16
1m
Pre Season - 2025
ComeOnYouUll
211
2m
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
2m
Super League
FIL
25
5m
How many games will we win
Wollo-Wollo-
54
5m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40832
9m
2025 Recruitment
bowlinboy
228
11m
Leeds away first up
FIL
51
13m
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
TODAY
2025 Squad Numbers
Tarquin Fueg
5
TODAY
England Women Las Vegas train-on squad
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Quiz night
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
MjM
15
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
CM Punk
2
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
Wires71
10
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
vastman
48
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!