I suppose that, whatever the standard press articles may say, and for whatever reason, the group we'e got aren't 100% a team. Maybe they're not that far off - I don't know. Maybe some are but there are the odd bad apples that you could throw out, but I suspect not.

Instead I suggest it's probably more complicated, and hard enough to explain, but let me put it this way - the team of 5 or 10 years ago, I'd be happy to go to war with, if I was one of them, as they would all have my back, and I would know they would fight to the end. In 2011 I think I'd buy a tin hat. I'm not saying there is no team spirit, or a dressing room rift, or anything as extreme as that, but perhaps the problem is that the players as a group aren't fully committed to 'all for one' etc. and ATEOTD are not ready to die for the cause, whatever they may protest.

I remember Peter Fox's motley assemblies of ageing rejects etc. They often had a siege mentality and were fiercely committed to each other and this made them so hard to beat, even where on paper the other team man for man had many superior players. Maybe that's the missing ingredient.

At the risk of upsetting you, are you the same JBT1991 that instead of ignoring a spat involving gurus and b4c wroteYou are all pathetic little girls trying to get one over on each other. grow a pair women and get on to the topic'"

Wow that was some digging you did, i'm sure everyone one of us have some contradictions in our posts. Anyway that was off topic as that was a reminder to talk about the topic not to say there opinion is rubbish as that was full blown argument. I take your advice and Ignore all posts due to pope having been catholic and......

IF Eddie and B4C think Briggs is crap fair enough.

Neither of them are wishing for him to do badly, so I haven't really got a problem with them. I can certainly see where they're coming from, as atm Briggs looks nowhere near SL standard (although the same can be said for alot of our squad). I hope he proves them wrong. I'm uncertain on him tbh, I'm not certain he'll make it but I'll give him more time before writing him off.

I dont want any player to do badly, that includes Herbert. I just think he's a very poor SH and cant see for the life of me why we signed him or continue to play him. Briggs, I think he's shown some good stuff in pre season and the Leeds game and could still possibly turn out good and I'm not writing him off considering he's come from a part time set up into a full time one with little time pre season to adjust. Herbert on the other hand I wasnt impressed at all pre season and up to date, and considering he's been a full time pro for a a few years you would expect him to have better skills and show them more frequently than he has. I have more patience for Briggs to come good than I do towards Herbert, who I could see wasn't up to it in his first few games.

There was a thread about Herbert on an Aussie forum at the time we signed him.
rlhttp://www.thegreenhouseact.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f

It is interesting and, now having seen him play a fair bit, I'm afraid many of the observations do ring true. He has a lot of work to do.

And there we have it. One half of the odd-couple has a pop at me for writing off Briggs after only a couple of game and the other half then tries to have a pop because I did not say anything sooner than that!!!

Take a bow lads, it is your swansong cos this shows once and for all that it is a no-win situation for me on here, but more and more people are seeing you for what you really are.

Unless, of course, I have misinterpreted the above post??

Indeed.

But you are wasting your time trying to explain this.

We'll be left with some great memories though. The number 2 on the sides with the sidebrns cut short & the side parting against Leeds was a classic.

And they are all saying that he is a better stand off not S/H so maybe now Jeffries is here will we see Herbert in his "Best" position?

if he wasn't injured

He must be the tallest SH since Terry Holmes. Who wasn't a RL SH either.

Agree re: Briggs, definitely. I think he deserves a prolonged run in the side at least, surely to prove his credentials rather than be dropped after one game? Especially now he has a better scrum-half alongside him. I've defended Herbert but I'll openly admit he's been slow off the mark, whether he'll change time will tell.

I think you're probaly exaggerating however when you say you couldn't work out why we signed him.