I would be inclined to agree but he has impoved very much in the last month or so but he is down the pecking order at Leeds.

And the bulls are the kings of signing journeymen unwanted by their clubs?

23-year old Patrick Ah Van and 24-year old Marc Herbert are journeymen?

hopefully that prediction is wrong :p

If they can look as good against SL opposition as they did against Halifax we need to be making sure we can make those two players the core of our back row for a long time.

Herbert was unwanted in oz and will drift from club to club. Unless you think the bulls are ready to offer him a longer term deal next year?

I think he is suffering from the pressure of playing for his future employment. realistically long term i think he is looking at playing national league or part time in Oz or dropping out of the game.

But really you are nit picking, Herbert was unwanted in Oz, ah van couldnt brake through so they ended up at the bulls because the bulls are desperate.

As ever, wilko is trolling, I was just rubbing salt into the Lowes wound, but you'll not get a sensible discussion

Though I am mildly surprised that a true Whino would diss such a servant of their club as Diskin was, even in trolling, but there you go.

Not nit picking, I just always associate the term "journeyman" with someone who has quite a bit of experience at a number of clubs. And those two players don't fall into that category.

It's not a comment on the players' abilities, just the use of that term. Personally I feel both need to improve quite a bit before they get offered a new contract. If that improvement doesn't come, I hope they won't still be here next year.

I pretty much agree with your assessment of the players, I just don't think they fall into the "journeyman" category. Certainly not for a few years anyway, and we can't really label them that based on what might happen.

Yeah I see your point. I have explained myself above. Herbert is the kind of bloke who is on the road to becoming that kind of player. I cant see the bulls investing in him long term. It will be a serious statement by the club if they do. I can't see it.

Nice swerve, but no, you insulted Diskin by calling him a journeyman, in fact he was the first name you listed of journeymen we have signed.


You did, you've just completely reversed what you said. Diskin was a journeyman, now he's a legend etc.


I won't say anything about you, I don't know you. I comment on what you put.

But your 17 fit players are still miles better than ours and include the likes of Roby, Graham, Wilkin, Shenton, Foster etc.

Like Big Les at the same club? Ah Van actually looks like he will be very good for us. Decent kicker (80% success rate) and puts 100% effort in in every game. Runs the ball hard and looks for work. I won't comment on Herbert but IMO your assessment of Ah Van is wrong.

Now in the same context i could say you called jimmy lowes A journeyman with your reply? you see I know you didn't mean that. Like i didnt mean what your a trying to push for. Like we both know you are trying to push this bit of banter away from the point I'm making, poorly worded by me I admit. I've said already on this forum about disco in the mcshane thread and mentioned about the bulls signing unwanted players. That's what I ment. You know it I know it but continue with the point by point reference BS if it makes you feel better! I make a fair point if you like it or not.

I agree. I think Ah Van has been a modest success this year. High kicking ratio (despite that face that a lot of his kicks only just creep over....but they do!), plenty of effort and 'go forward'. Ok, hardly a world beater or with pace to burn, but he's a good solid acquisition.

In a better team, or team that's on top, he would look a lot better. I remember thinking that he really looked good coming in to acting half in the Cas game. Our pack got on top of the Cas pack, and Ah Van made some punishing runs out of defence.