Exactly and that point is backed up in the OP. Lots of size and aggression was lost in the off-season and we need to replace it.

Some interesting points there,regarding big Karl,I too wish he was still here,his trying scoring record over so many games cannot be a fluke

The main thing is the forwards we no longer have,size and aggression is sadly lacking this season

Think we need a Euro lottery winner for next seasons recruiting

Burgess, Elima, Hargreaves and Kopout would have walked into the side at the moment. They left a huge gap which with the best will in the world Sidlow, and Evans have had no chance of filling.

I believe I am a grounded supporter, my expectations of this season are realistic, and if we make the top 8, then it a successful season for me.

The list above shows why we are weaker in the forwards and I agree with the post re Ainscough and Pryce. It's also a shame that Mr Hargreaves can't be talked out of retirement, as he had a great season last year.

If I'm honest, I'm not entirely happy with how we have been performing over the last few games. Even with the missing players, we seem to be causing our own downfall. The number of times the team has worked it's socks off to pin the opposition in it's own half and then give a penalty away on the last tackle is becoming a serious issue. The discipline has been really poor, and this has allowed other teams easy yardage. We got a "tonking" from Huddersfield the other week, and we were guilty of the above numerous times. I must of seen Brough kick 40-50 yards from his own half at least 5 times! It does appear that the same players are usually responsible for this, I think L'estrange is a consistent offender of the above, along with Evans.

We have seen players kick out on the full from the kick off (3 times against Wigan) and players kicking out on the full when in play (twice last night, I think). Not only does this give the opposition easy yards, but then allows them to get a roll on and raises their confidence.

Our players are looking tired at the end of the game, and I believe this is a result of the amount of defending they are having to do during the game. We just make it so hard for ourselves.

When Wigan came to Odsal this year, I didn't think their attacking play was 'outstanding', but their defensive effort was immense. They didn't give away a penalty so we spent most of the 1st half within our own 20. Same when Leeds came to Odsal, they were extremely disciplined in defence and never let us out of our half.

Also, when we are having no luck in attack, and we can't find a way though, we become impatient and try a miracle play, which rarely comes off. We need to realise that we don't need to score on every attack and try to get consecutive sets. A simple little grubber into the in goal and put pressure on the defender. If they come out of their in goal, keep them pinned for their 5 tackles and try again.

Sorry for the long post, to summarise, the players we have at the club this season are more than capable of competing, they just need to be more disciplined and stop the "brain farts" when attacking! I havn't lost faith, but we need to realise what we are doing wrong before our play off hopes fade away.

In my extremely limited playing experience I remember it's easy to lose composure once the odd mistake creeps in. Once that happens further mistakes follow. Individuals try extra hard to make up for it but do so on their own which leads to more mistakes and the team goes from being a cohesive group to being a bunch of individuals. It's a snowball effect.

I think part of our current problem is that we're having to work very hard when faced with a stronger forward pack so we're under pressure from the off. When we have everyone fit it's a different story. Having said that I agree that there are too many stupid soft mistakes and we compound these with penalties all too often lately. Composure is the key. I think this needs to be emphasised by our on field leaders.

The original post is an excellent summary. Some people have too much expectation and seem to have forgotten where we have just come from. I am not happy that we seem to be losing quite regularly but know for sure that it is not lack of effort ( in some cases because of too much effort). I am just grateful to have a team to support this season and consider that being still in the 8 after the last few weeks is remarkable. Early season with a relatively full squad we were quite competative, now, as injuries start to bite our small squad is exposed. I am sure that things will improve as players come back from injury.

Good post.

I think most fans, to be fair, seem to know where we are, what the position is and are able to put some sort of a handle on roughly how long it's going to take us to get away from where we are. Though, that said, there are oddments who still appear to think we are still in 2003, with £millions in the bank, and a team of internationals on the field [and a couple more on the bench].

I think we maybe need a slice of luck to get us back on track, 'cos it's pretty certain that, like old adage says,"losing becomes a habit". Like another saying, though, "you make your own luck", and we need to start doing that asap; maybe starting with a new set of 'resolutions', like 'I will not put my hand on the ball, or on his back, when the tackled player is getting up'. That one alone will probably save us five, or more, penalties per game, and that's a potential 30 fewer tackles to make.

To be realistic though, I think our thin squad is starting to creak, as reading the coach's comments it seems that we have some blokes starting games who [ireally[/i could do with a weekend off. Things aren't going to get any easier.

I like the thought of this - it's the repeat sets that are costing us!

Don't get me wrong I did state that there is no excuse for the missed tackles and the errors/discipline. And I do think the likes of Walker need go but we have missed the size in the pack (as stated in the OP) and also our idea in attack has gone. We are okay scoring against the likes of Cas and Wakey but we have no idea when it comes to the Hull teams and the top half of the league :/ To be honest anything better than 10th is a massive achievement in my eyes.

TBF we beat HKR without too much bother earlier in the season. It's injuries and form loss that's taking it's toll now.

Had a fully fit pack then though. Last year if we got one or two (Manuokafoa and Scruton) injuries we could rely on Burgess, Hargreaves, Kopczak, Elima, Sibbit and at a push Joseph to cover. We pick up two injures (same players for example) we are left with Walker, Langley, Evans and Sidlow.

To be honest I struggled to remember a team look as uninterested as KR did at Odsal that day. But I think we are suffering now from "too" problems - too small a squad and too small a pack - size and numbers. At a pinch we could get away with our current backs if they were behind a pack which could assert itself.

Excellant original post and many sensible comments to follow it. Is it me, but the wheels seemed to come off after the Jay Willey affair. I wonder how much damage this has added to the obvious injuries and tiredness aspect of our losing form. As has been said to be in the the top 8 so far into the season with basically one hand tied behind our back is actually commendable.

We should never have gotten rid of Richie Hawkyard.

Who?