MK Dons don't retain the history of Wimbledon - they did for a while, but the emergence of AFC Wimbledon as a 'proper' club put an end to that. So much so that MK even handed over the FA Cup from 1988 and this now stands on the honours board of AFC. They also never retained the community.

A club is not a physical entity, even in the days of clubs of businesses, but an organic being - made up of various constituent parts. Including its location. You can drop some of these parts, but if you continue to take away, it suddenly won't be that club anymore.

While it is a far more positive feeling working in Leeds than Bradford, I would say there is more crime & violence in Leeds. A large number of students are frequently beaten up around here but it doesn't seem to affect the image.

didn't realise that little twist, thanks. But it makes my point, a relocated club handing back history to the community where it belongs. And i agree with your second paragrapgh, the point where it crosses the line of not being the same club is very subjective I suspect and will be different for everyone.

It would still be the same club though, playing at the same ground but with a more appealing name.

Yes, we should stop being Bradford Bulls and become Leeds Bulls because Leeds is a much more positive 'brand' and will appeal more to ABC1 types.

Would you like that?

I think Middlesbrough FC should change to North Yorkshire Reds too, I mean Middlesbrough is a bit of a dump. Erm... and who like Burnley? That's a dead end town with no prospect of anything saving it... Pennine Clarets ftw.

Most of the negativity in Bradford seems to come from Bradfordians themselves, the outside view of the city probably suffers because of how some of those who live there are very bitter about everything.

Well if the people living there are negative about things that surely proves the point in question. If the locals tell you it is a hole then there is a fair chance that it will be and not just the opinion of some one miles away who has never been there.

To be honest, any negativity I feel towards Bradford isn't based on you lot who live in the city, its based on fact.

But what was the reaction, specifically? I will be honest and say that whenever I have heard people, on being told someone is from Bradford, try to be funny or take the pis5s, it only ever seems to be some racist fsck like, "Oh, you mean Braadistan", or similar. There was a brief period when people who could read, had a bit of fun at Bradford's expense following comments in a book by Bill Bryson, but that was very funny, if unfortunate, and not malicious and probably on balance the infamy bumped visitor numbers up.

I have rarely heard an outsider make any instant criticism of Bradford as a place as in, maybe, things to do, shopping facilities, housing, sports or anything else. The only ones who seem to come back with what they think is a derogatory putdown invariably seem to be those to whose "mind" it is a bad thing that "Pakis" live here.

Pointing out they are being a racist fsck sometimes does the trick, but I'm not interested in racists' views of Bradford to begin with.

Yeah then we could be sponsered by Northern Rock.

Generally the opinion that it was a run down,dirty dump full of car crime, unemployment and drugs, all of which is sadly true. It can be said that these problems also affect many other places but they seem far more prevalent in Bradford.
We left the city eight years ago as we could see the way things were going. My only contact nowadays is going to the rugby. Last year as a point of interest we drove through our old neigbourhood to have a look around and we were shocked and devastated at how run down and filthy 'our' nice street had become. My girlfriend who had lived there since the early sixties was almost in tears.

The bit you quoted from me was again in reference to changing grounds more than a name change.

I agree staying at Odsal with a name change is not much different to when Bradford Northern became Bradford Bulls, so a change to Northern Bulls would mean its the same club, but I still wouldn't agree to it.

As to being "more appealing", again thats subjective. Given I identify with the club as being the rugby league from the town I was born and raised in, Bradford, removing that identity is not appealing to me, it might be appealing to sponsors but ultimately I could care less about their detached view of my club. As long as they don't desert us completely, and tbh my guess is that sponsor/advertising spend is more about the amount of people who see/hear/associate with the companies message than it is about some subjective image problem. So Bradford as a city could be twice as worse as it is now, but if we averaged 28,000 fans to every home game you can bet the blue chip companies would be more keen on advertising space than they are now.

If people are embarrassed by the Bradford connection I'd suggest it's they who need to change, not the name of the club.

Why? Because we can see the realities of the state that this once proud city has degenerated to?
If you are happy to be associated with how things are then that's fine but i want better than that.

There is much truth there.

Major sponsors, in the national sense, don't have the same perception as locals anyway, nor do they read the T&A. Any business worth its salt will look at any prospective new area, see what's missing, and see an opportunity [inot[/i a reason to disengage and that attitude is likely to be one of the biggest reasons they became successful in the first place.

Some of the emotive nonsense in here about how Bradford is so much worse than everywhere else is laughable to anyone who moves around the country and keeps their eyes open. Sure Bradford has problems; so does [ievery[/i large urban area, have a wander round Gipton, Belle Isle (what a misnomer, beautiful island, indeed) or Osmandthorpe all in that area, slightly to the east, that people have a "much better perception" of.

The one probably 'unique' problem is the stalled shopping centre in the city centre, that apart we are little different from other similarly sized areas in the south, London, midlands or north; all have boarded up shops, beggars in the streets, massive drug crime figures, 'dodgy' red light areas, unemployment, poverty and deprivation. We are not alone.

Well said.

Most of the negativity and bitterness in Bradford seems to be 'internal' and based on divisions (perceived or otherwise) of race and class.