I am a fan of what can be referred to as 'good capitalism', i.e. productive, value add activity that rewards genuine creativity and hard work. May and her party's politics reward rent seeking and abuse of market power, not those who drive genuine economic activity. Much as I hate them, I would at least understand why people voted conservative if their brand matched their rhetoric or their actual policies. But they are jingoistic, entitled, and appeal to the very worst of 'British values'.

I'm not overly enthused with the other options though, and I'm sick of hearing Corbynistas whinging about media bias and how awful the Tory spin machine is. It is HIS JOB to deal with that and if he cannot he is unfit for purpose. He is as complicit as any Tory in the destruction that will be lavished on the UK/Great Britain/England by another five years of Conservative government if he fails to deal appropriately with reality. Sod it - I'm still voting Labour, but my concern will be primarily on whether I get my bonus this year because the wider social context is just broken.

The Labour chance was in the last General Election when the Tories stock was far lower than it is today but they chose the wrong Milliband (if "choice" is the right term) as Red Ed the Tory pretty much fooled nobody.

It seems to me that to try an address this and appeal to the traditional Labour voters that they have turned the clock back four decades to a political dinosaur that perhaps appeals to older Labour voter but is completely out of touch with modern society.

The fact that he and his buddy McDonnell are IRA sympathisers does not help either.

As one who has quite an interest in the politics of North Korea, this is an utterly absurd and crass comment that you really should be ashamed of.

This is a country where people are being starved to death whilst a chosen few live in multi-million dollar mansions drinking the best (imported) foods and drinking the finest of drink.

A country where people (and their families) are thrown into the Gulags for saying one wrong word about the "Dear Leader." A country where people are executed for the slightest of insubordination. A country where people make soup out of Tree Bark as they cannot afford to eat.

This is a country with televisions pre-tuned to one Brainwashing tv channel, made by the state to train the people into believing the lies and nonsense they spout, spending billions on assembling the largest (by percentage of population) army in the world and developing nuclear weapons whilst the vast majority of its people are denied basic things like a transport infrastructure and electricity.

A country who will imprison or execute all the family and friends of anyone who successfully defects from it.

You may not like the Tories but the comparisons are utterly ridiculous. In fact, were it be the way that you portray it then the likelihood is that, by now, you would have been shoot by firing squad for speaking out against the regime in the above post.

Have a word with yourself.

I see the Labour manifesto has been leaked. Having had a read there's not a lot I have a problem with. A lot of it makes sense. Shame it leaked out and the media is concentrating on that.

Rather than obsessing about the leak they should use this as an opportunity to talk about the content.

Thanks for that Andrew.

Sorry you lost me there!

Quote: Bullseye " Andrew Gwynne was on the telly this morning saying just that. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politic ... out-labour

Quote: Bullseye " Andrew Gwynne was on the telly this morning saying just that. www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politic ... out-labour

Well he's right. When stuff like this happens you have to just get on with it.

In many ways it's not bad thing since they can get further publicity when the final agreed version comes out.

Pleased to see that re-nationalising the railways is in there. The current set up is an absolute joke and much worse than British Rail ever was.

I think you slightly miss the point, Eddie.

There is no direct comparison to be made between May and kim, it's simply that he is the major (I know there are others) current, well known, dangerous dictator; everyone's bête noir if you will. So anyone who shows narcissistic tendencies, dictatorial traits and has numerous soundbites on tap May be lumped in with him ( did you see what I did there).

I once voted for a Tory on the local council, because he was a good Councillor but I'll never vote for a Tory government. This working class voter knows full well the Cons have no concern for our best interests (whatever condescending phraseology they come up with; JAMS, Jesus wept) and Corbyn won't even oppose the current government, so it's the liberals for me as the best bet to keep the Tory out and maybe put the brake on the lunacy of leaving the EU.

So, the debate I was aiming for was about rlfree speechrl, rlPrivacyrl, rlplan to crush opposition denied?!?rl, rlrefusing to debate protecting workers rightsrl

I expressed it as any weakening of those positions is a slip of a few percentage points towards a dictatorship by comparing May to a current dictator.

What I got instead was the standard ME intentionally misrepresented proposition where he sets up an argument by himself which he can defeat. He then defeats himself by arguing the opposite point, quite successfully.

And I'm not going to have a word with myself, because then I would be you...

I never understood "Straw Man" back in the glory days of full on FA/Adey/FA arguing. And I still don't.

But glad it's back. It's like a return to glory days. Just like a vote for Labour.

Nor do I. It was pretty much copyright Adeybull though.

Might have given himself up here.

I've just googled straw man. Interesting.
Also known as an Aunt Sally.

It's a shameless overdose of populist rhetoric. It's like Santa's wish list according to an unnamed senior Labour politician. Illogically costed and unaffordable fantasy politics from a bunch of insidious and incompetent Luddites.

The thought of Corbyn and his unbelievably shamateurish team running this country is truly scary. The Tories are equally appalling but they are the lesser of 2 evils at the moment. Labour under Corbyn has repeatedly squandered a gift-wrapped opportunity to hold this government to account and that represents a major betrayal of the British electorate.