FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Latest financial situation |
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1271.jpg Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
Build Bridges NOT Walls:1271.jpg |
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| Quote: Northernrelic "Well this could be a test for the new management - can they organise a gate and a bucket?
I will put my hand in my pocket if they can'"
I'd guess (though obviously I've no actual knowledge) that the old management left it largely to the staff to organise; directors come up with the ideas and staff put it into operation.
I suspect that a couple of directors would be pretty overwhelmed with all that anyway, apart from which they are probably better off spending time on pursuing the other investors. If that's how it worked before then the staff already have hands on experience. Much previously was done online though,(the virtual ticket) rather than cash, which despite having to pay card fees they felt was the better way to do it.
If it comes to it I'll gladly join you Btw..
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| No. Because it didn't.
The £700k was the loan existing from the RFL.
The £1,250k (as now confirmed) was the sale value of the Odsal lease.
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| Quote: Adeybull "No. Because it didn't.
The £700k was the loan existing from the RFL.
The £1,250k (as now confirmed) was the sale value of the Odsal lease.'"
So we actually had a further cash injection of £550k from the RFL? Plus the £250k VAT?
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| Quote: Northernrelic "I keep reading these posts on administration - the easy way out, the only option etc, etc. Yes it would change the shareholders but more practically while existing creditors could be iced it still leaves the following "little issues"
1) Working capital for the rest of the season.
2) You still need a viable business plan for future seasons
3) Say goodbye to credit
4) Players become free agents
5) Points deduction - could effectively end our interest in the playoffs and the money that would bring
6) Someone at Redhall has a rush of blood and we find ourselves several leagues down the ladder
I know some Wakey fans keep saying administration ended up being good for them, but what if a Taffy Millionare had appeared and they were looking forward to welcoming Gateshead to Bellevue?
I am not for a minute saying raising £1.2m is easy but I still think a better option than admin'"
They still just don't get it, do they?
Administration gets rid of historic debts that the business cannot afford if it is to continue. Administration presupposes there is a viable business going forward, hamstrung by a big overhand of debt.
Except we do not HAVE any big overhang of debt. This new "six figure loan" is the only new figure to emerge (and I suspect "six-figure" is the usual euphemism for "about £100k"?) and the VAT dates only to January 2012 and we knew about it and the due date (if not the precise amount) at the time of the pledge. The nearest we have seems to be the image rights tax settlement, and if the numbers I heard - £250k payable over three years - are anything like right, that by itself is hardly a justification for administration of a business with costs of £4m or more?
The other possible financial reason for administration would be to get out of an unduly onerous contract. The only contracts I could imagine being large enough to have such an impact are the Odsal short lease with the RFL, and player contracts. And surely the RFL would have a LOT to say about us trying to get out of either?
Our problem - and it comes across loud and clear from what Mr Coulby said yesterday - is that we seem to have a very substantial shortfall of income relative to routine operating costs. Our Wakey friends have never explained precisely how administration would solve THAT particular problem.
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| Quote: Cibaman "So we actually had a further cash injection of £550k from the RFL? Plus the £250k VAT?'"
Of course. Except, at the time, we all assumed the cash injection in January was actually well over £1m, since we were not aware of the existence of the £700k loan - or of any RFL loan, other than the existence of a floating charge registered in January 2011 when it seems a loan, or at least part of it, was granted.
Where this money all went is the "black hole" that has perplexed me for some weeks now, and that I have referred to regularly on here.
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| Most of the collection work itself, and the manpower, was organised and carried out by Bullbuilder members at the club's request, not the club. The club did not even have enough buckets.
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| Lets hope we don't kick the bucket
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13462.gif :13462.gif |
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| Detailed refute of the current board claims by Hood in League Express tomorrow.
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65068_1324055672.jpg What's pink & hard first thing in the morning?
The financial time crossword
[url=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/864/pinkhards.jpg/:39bjthd5][img:39bjthd5]http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/5724/pinkhards.jpg[/img:39bjthd5][/url:39bjthd5]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_65068.jpg |
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| Quote: Adeybull " Our Wakey friends have never explained precisely how administration would solve THAT particular problem.'"
Simple really and doesn't require a rocket scientist to work it out.
A substantial amount of regular expenses that the Bulls have are paying out are the massive debts that have been accumulated, administration would remove this cost from the NEWCO so therefore require less income in to survive.
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| Quote: Frank Whitcombe "This entire thread is an irrelevance we are not going into administration.
Watch this space and the programme notes on Monday make interesting reading
That could be interesting Frank as I've just been told there are NO chairmans notes in tomorrows programme.
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13747_1541715311.jpg [b:3g5rrn89](and I feel fine)[/b:3g5rrn89]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_13747.jpg |
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| Quote: Bully_Boxer "Detailed refute of the current board claims by Hood in League Express tomorrow.'"
Great, a p1$$!ng contest, just what's needed to sort this mess out.
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| Well hopefully somewhere in between both sides of the story we will hear some of the truth.
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| Quote: financialtimes "Simple really and doesn't require a rocket scientist to work it out.
A substantial amount of regular expenses that the Bulls have are paying out are the massive debts that have been accumulated, administration would remove this cost from the NEWCO so therefore require less income in to survive.
Total bollox though, since there do not seem to be any such "massive accumulated debts". We are aware of a VAT liability that only fell due on 30 April, a loan of I suspect around £100k and I further suspect from one of the old board or a sympathiser and I further suspect again of very recent origin (since we have been told nothing to refute any of that), and the image rights tax which I have heard put at £250k payable over 3 years the first instalment having only just fallen due.
Do you have more to add?
UPDATE: looks like I was right about the scale of the "loan" and perhaps why it was needed, but the source was far more straightforward than I expected. Led astray by Mr Coulby's seemingly disingenuous words.
And seemingly spot on about the image rights tax - but on that I merely repeated what I had read on the forums posted by people who I suspected we're actually in the know.
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| Quote: Adeybull "Of course. Except, at the time, we all assumed the cash injection in January was actually well over £1m, since we were not aware of the existence of the £700k loan - or of any RFL loan, other than the existence of a floating charge registered in January 2011 when it seems a loan, or at least part of it, was granted.
Where this money all went is the "black hole" that has perplexed me for some weeks now, and that I have referred to regularly on here.'"
And if the black hole is growing it makes it even more difficult to stabilise the club's finances.
I just find it incredible that the RFL were prepared to enter into such an arrangement when they knew the club couldn't repay the initial loan. I could understand them converting that loan into a lease but to advance even more money seems completely reckless, an extreme case of throwing good money after bad..
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14145 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2020 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
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| The arrangement was to enable the club to repay the loan, since they had seemingly repaid none of it hitherto and had no prospect of doing so.
Leakers from Red Hall were seemingly briefing on a "large Yorkshire club" being on the verge of administration last autumn.
People, including Coulby it seems, have been speculating why the RFL sought prompt repayment of te £350k that the club apparently believed was to remain outstanding this year. Maybe you have provided an answer?
But the RFL did not advance more money, beyond our liability now to pay rent. It bought an asset, apparenty on the basis of a professional independent valuation, and as I said at the time quite possibly got a pretty good deal overall given our weak bargaining position?
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