I think we discuss this on a fairly regular basis. For me, a non Bradfordian, its the club I love not the city so I have no emotional links to the word "Bradford". That said, I can understand and respect the fact that those of us watching the club born in Bradford (and I'd still guess that to be the vast majority) are wary of dropping the name.

But as I say every time, we sit on the very edge of the district. We could retain our fanbase but remove ourselves from the clutches of ineptness simply by moving a few hundred yards down the 606.

I know, I was just also including the point made by Adey as well. As to if it would be the same club, I think that depends on each persons own view as to what the club is, to me the club is the community it is located in, and the supporters that have followed the club through the years, more so than what staff or players happen to be employed by the club at any given time.

If the community doesnt go with the club then to me its a different club, possibly just as valid, but not the same. As an example Wigan moved accross town, but it was the same name, community, same fans therefore same club. Wimbeldon FC moved to Milton Keynes, different community, different name, different fans therefore different club, in my personal view even though they retain the history of Wimbeldon - like I say others will no doubt have thier own view as to what a given club is.

Just on the name, I think you have to keep Bradford, and try to use the club as a way of being something positive about the city. Interesting point for discussion though.

You have made good points. It is the club NOT the city which we are supporting. As i said earlier it would be interesting to know how many of our supporters, NOT fans, actually live within the City of Bradford i supect there will be a large and increasing percentage who do not.
I can see no advantage in retaining the Bradford tag, as a brand it is the equivalent of Poundworld.

I do not agree 'Bradford' should be dropped whilst the Bulls are still in Bradford, obviously. However I can see why dropping the name could be an advantage in the world of re-branding, lets not forgot the re-invention from Northern to the Bulls, it worked coupled with a successful team! Also I totally agree that if you put the word Bradford with any company, organisation, etc it WILL promote a negative slant on that organisation. I was born and still live in Bradford (don't know for how long probably because I am starting to be one of those who rubbish Bradford as a place) and if I mention that to anybody outside the city in creates a picture of negativity and everything bad you can associate with the place even though I know the positive aspects. On the flip side if you say put word Leeds with an organisation (not in any way suggesting the Bulls should move to Leeds, never) it creates positivity whether we like it or not. E.G: Showcases Cinema is in Kirklees but states its in LEEDS! Whether I would support the 'Northern Bulls' if they moved out the city, I probably would and it would be probably quicker for Bulls' Fans to get there with a lot of support coming from the Calderdale/Kirklees area anyway!

MK Dons don't retain the history of Wimbledon - they did for a while, but the emergence of AFC Wimbledon as a 'proper' club put an end to that. So much so that MK even handed over the FA Cup from 1988 and this now stands on the honours board of AFC. They also never retained the community.

A club is not a physical entity, even in the days of clubs of businesses, but an organic being - made up of various constituent parts. Including its location. You can drop some of these parts, but if you continue to take away, it suddenly won't be that club anymore.

While it is a far more positive feeling working in Leeds than Bradford, I would say there is more crime & violence in Leeds. A large number of students are frequently beaten up around here but it doesn't seem to affect the image.

didn't realise that little twist, thanks. But it makes my point, a relocated club handing back history to the community where it belongs. And i agree with your second paragrapgh, the point where it crosses the line of not being the same club is very subjective I suspect and will be different for everyone.

It would still be the same club though, playing at the same ground but with a more appealing name.

Yes, we should stop being Bradford Bulls and become Leeds Bulls because Leeds is a much more positive 'brand' and will appeal more to ABC1 types.

Would you like that?

I think Middlesbrough FC should change to North Yorkshire Reds too, I mean Middlesbrough is a bit of a dump. Erm... and who like Burnley? That's a dead end town with no prospect of anything saving it... Pennine Clarets ftw.

Most of the negativity in Bradford seems to come from Bradfordians themselves, the outside view of the city probably suffers because of how some of those who live there are very bitter about everything.

Well if the people living there are negative about things that surely proves the point in question. If the locals tell you it is a hole then there is a fair chance that it will be and not just the opinion of some one miles away who has never been there.

To be honest, any negativity I feel towards Bradford isn't based on you lot who live in the city, its based on fact.

But what was the reaction, specifically? I will be honest and say that whenever I have heard people, on being told someone is from Bradford, try to be funny or take the pis5s, it only ever seems to be some racist fsck like, "Oh, you mean Braadistan", or similar. There was a brief period when people who could read, had a bit of fun at Bradford's expense following comments in a book by Bill Bryson, but that was very funny, if unfortunate, and not malicious and probably on balance the infamy bumped visitor numbers up.

I have rarely heard an outsider make any instant criticism of Bradford as a place as in, maybe, things to do, shopping facilities, housing, sports or anything else. The only ones who seem to come back with what they think is a derogatory putdown invariably seem to be those to whose "mind" it is a bad thing that "Pakis" live here.

Pointing out they are being a racist fsck sometimes does the trick, but I'm not interested in racists' views of Bradford to begin with.

Yeah then we could be sponsered by Northern Rock.

Generally the opinion that it was a run down,dirty dump full of car crime, unemployment and drugs, all of which is sadly true. It can be said that these problems also affect many other places but they seem far more prevalent in Bradford.
We left the city eight years ago as we could see the way things were going. My only contact nowadays is going to the rugby. Last year as a point of interest we drove through our old neigbourhood to have a look around and we were shocked and devastated at how run down and filthy 'our' nice street had become. My girlfriend who had lived there since the early sixties was almost in tears.

The bit you quoted from me was again in reference to changing grounds more than a name change.

I agree staying at Odsal with a name change is not much different to when Bradford Northern became Bradford Bulls, so a change to Northern Bulls would mean its the same club, but I still wouldn't agree to it.

As to being "more appealing", again thats subjective. Given I identify with the club as being the rugby league from the town I was born and raised in, Bradford, removing that identity is not appealing to me, it might be appealing to sponsors but ultimately I could care less about their detached view of my club. As long as they don't desert us completely, and tbh my guess is that sponsor/advertising spend is more about the amount of people who see/hear/associate with the companies message than it is about some subjective image problem. So Bradford as a city could be twice as worse as it is now, but if we averaged 28,000 fans to every home game you can bet the blue chip companies would be more keen on advertising space than they are now.