There are lots of things I am against, organised religion being one of them. I am more afraid of Americanised Christianity than I am of Islam. Just because a few radical clerics say they want England to be an Islamic state, & the Daily Mail reports it, doesn't mean it is likely to happen.

I agree with your point of organised religion but i do believe its more than just "a few radical clerics". There is a sense of total division in some areas of Bradford and other parts of the UK. IMO..

The EDL is planning to 'hit' Bradford for two, not unconnected, reasons. The first is that, whether you like it or not, there is a deep-seated distrust, resentment and in many cases I am afraid even hatred of the large and increasing Pakistani community. Second, if you want to provoke major disorder, then a pretty safe bet is to go somewhere where it has all kicked off before, and where there is no shortage of hotheads and agents provocateurs on both sides who would dearly love it all to kick off again.

I'm not sure what tigertot means. Surely, the best way to make your point and ensure the EDL's time is wasted would be if nobody, at all, as in absolutely not one person turned up to be their much-desired audience? No TV crews, no cameramen, no counter-protesters - nobody? The police could let them trudge around non-residential streets till they got fed up and once they were tired of chanting slogans at stone walls and empty bus shelters, they'd get peed off and crawl back to their holes?

It's fairly well known that the media give totally disproportionate coverage to extremists. Those extremists stage publicity stunts to get this coverage. They never give the moderate voices the same prominence.

It's possible to oppose "muslim extremism" without supporting an extremist group like the EDL. For instance I know of several muslim groups that oppose "muslim extremism".

But you are afraid of both, is the point. And rightly so. Once you get a country where militant islam is the 'government', your life can no longer be the same, and the Taliban is never far behind.

As to the likelihood of it happening, some years back one prominent muslim forecast that islam had no need of a war to take over the west, it would just happen peacefully, by weight of numbers. A recent rlUniversity of Leeds studyrl says the proportion of black, Asian and other ethnic minorities will rise from 8% of the population, as recorded in the 2001 census, to 20% by 2051. Trends can change, and forecasts can be wrong, but in terms of 'likely to happen' it doesn't take much extrapolation from that to get to 51% especially as birth rate, not immigration, is the major driver of the changes in proportions, and so if similar trends in numbers of children continue in future generations then you could go so far as to say it would be inevitable. Of course, any such studies can in the end only be speculation based on previous behaviour, but then again, on the published figues, something would have to significantly change for it (an islamic state, on the basis of the democratic wish of a majority) not to happen.

Assuming of course that all the descendants would vote for that, you might for example take the view that the descendants of muslims will not themselves increasingly remain muslims, although I can't remember seeing much evidence of that.

If your freedom impinges on the freedom of others, it's no longer simply a question of freedom. They are coming here with the expressed intent of causing harm. This is not a freedom issue.

Why should those scumbags be allowed to march around Bradford? They are coming for one reason only, to cause trouble. I hope its banned.

Why are any of these marches allowed to take place?

Have to agree with that, but there is no way the media will stay away. And I am almost inclined to make a trip into Bradford to make the point that these d!kcheads are not going to drive me out of my city.

Well, if they were just roundly booed and catcalled wherever they went i suppose that would be an alternative, but it's just unrealistic to think that if there are two sizeable opposing factions, it won't kick off. It is guaranteed to.
The only realistic way to deal with it is to ban it.

However objectionable if they were all Bradford people wanting to demonstrate peacably in their own city then that might be different, but as that is not at all the case, we don't need to discuss it.

Beats me, but I'd be surprised if the Bradford one goes ahead if the fuzz have think it's going to kick off. They don't want a repeat of past events. Bradford's never really recovered from the riots so another occurance is the last things anyone wants apart from the EDL.

Like you I hope it's banned.

I am not afraid of Islam or of UK becoming an Islamic state. I must admit to being worried when I see Sarah Palin being touted as a possible US president though.
Your growth in population seems to suggest all ethnic minorities are Muslim & the 51% will become Muslim. Obviously they are not. I remember Northern Ireland being predicted as becoming majority Catholic within a generation as they breed like rabbits (present company excepted), this has not happened & I don't foresee a 51% non-white/non-Christian population, nor do I worry about living in a 20% one, even if it were to happen.

Without going into too much detail, it is my understanding that the protests in Leeds were a lot worse than were publicised. There were altercations near Millenium Square and around the town that didn't make news reports (including a wedding limo at the town hall that got trashed).

But I know what you mean

You're just grandstanding. WTF effect would Palin being president in a remote land have to do with life in the UK, as compared with the UK becoming an Islamic state?


It is not "my" growth, it is the University's growth. I did no counting at all. The majority of the growth in population is muslim. Whether you like, don't like, or are completely indifferent, I don't see the point in discussion whilst avoiding the known facts.

Well, it is unlikely to happen any time soon in Ilkley, but let's look at population and birth statistics in Bradford. I say this as simple fact, with no agenda nor comment save to show that, [ide facto[/i, the muslim population if trends continue will undoubtedly outstrip the non-muslim population in BradfordThe Annual Report of the Joint Director of Public Health Bradford and Airedale 2008/09[/i

Because we live in the UK where "free speech" is still allowed. Wether you agree with it or not. Its a difficult one.

Free speech I'm all for. But there is a difference between free speech and marching through other people's streets chanting racist slogans. It's incitement to hatred. It's designed to cause trouble and nothing else.