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| Quote Stul="Stul"Your glee betrays you.
Why would a company that has served its purpose and doesn't own the Bulls, or indeed anything else any more, not liquidate?'"
Exactly. OK Bulls is nothing to do with the Bulls any more. They are no longer the owners so have no reason to stay trading. The ownership of the Bulls has been passed to new companies so I fail to see how this effects the Bulls in any way.
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| Quote debaser="debaser"Exactly. OK Bulls is nothing to do with the Bulls any more. They are no longer the owners so have no reason to stay trading. The ownership of the Bulls has been passed to new companies so I fail to see how this effects the Bulls in any way.'"
Wrong. The new owners bought OK Bulls ltd, which in turn is the holding company for the assets including the bulls. The ownership of the holding company changed from Omar Khan to the New guys. Possibly new owners are planning on transferring assets to a new holding company, and providing the debts of OK Bulls ltd are either transferred to new company or settled then its not an issue that would involve RFL.
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| Quote mat="mat"Wrong. The new owners bought OK Bulls ltd, which in turn is the holding company for the assets including the bulls. The ownership of the holding company changed from Omar Khan to the New guys. Possibly new owners are planning on transferring assets to a new holding company, and providing the debts of OK Bulls ltd are either transferred to new company or settled then its not an issue that would involve RFL.'"
That's kind of what I meant!
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| Looks like a group restructuring but interestingly the biggest liability of OK Bulls Ltd is probably the £900k "loan" from OK. You can see why the new owners would do this but maybe less OK with OK?
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| Quote mat="mat"Wrong. The new owners bought OK Bulls ltd, which in turn is the holding company for the assets including the bulls. The ownership of the holding company changed from Omar Khan to the New guys. Possibly new owners are planning on transferring assets to a new holding company, and providing the debts of OK Bulls ltd are either transferred to new company or settled then its not an issue that would involve RFL.'"
What would be a logical reason for doing all of that though? Why not just rename this current company?
The only thing I can think of is that it would get them out of having to file some annual accounts.
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I've stayed away from places like this since early April. Making an exception, given the potential for real damage from uninformed or malicious comment. Then, as as you were.
My take on what I have read. No inside info, nothing other than what I have read. In particular, though, the wording of the OP's post - which may or may not be a bit mischievous but certainly IMO encourages jumping to conclusions - does not necessarily say what some of you guys look to have assumed it means.
1 - Yes, a new company Bradford Bulls (2014) ltd looks to have been incorporated. Forget all the waknerage from commercial sites, just go look at Companies House www.companieshouse.gov.uk for free.
2 - No, this does NOT in itself necessarily signify ANYTHING. For example, it could just be to protect the Bradford Bulls company name (although I suspect more than that).
3 - I cannot conceive that there is any intent by the new board to put the CLUB (note emphasis) into Administration AGAIN. Were they to do that, it would surely be goodnight Vienna for everyone - including themselves. After all that has gone on, I think anyone would hesitate to totally rule out the possibility, but it would surely have to be a desperate last resort tied up with the situation with OK rather than the club finances?
4 - OK Bulls Ltd has a big liability - secured by a charge on its assets - to OK. We were told c.£900k, IIRC?
5 - If I was the new Board, I would do my best to move the assets and all the non-OK liabilities into a new holding or subsidiary - or even just a connected company, if OK had not put anything in place to prevent it - to separate them from the liability to OK. That way, OK Bulls Ltd becomes a company with assets of loan to/shares in/whatever Newco, and a liability to OK. Everything else is in Newco. And OK's position is not compromised because the charge on the assets of OK Bulls ltd will include on the loan to/shares in Newco.
6 - Most definitely, if I was the new Board I would want to quarantine the club going forward from anything OK and the previous owners did or might have rendered the company liable for (known or unknown to them). For example, if it transpired that OK Bulls Ltd owed someone heaps (or someone had a big claim against it) that no-one knew about or some supposedly injured party came up with, a new liability that could bring down the club, you protect against that by shifting the club into Newco. Then, should OK Bulls Ltd go bust, that does not automatically bring down the CLUB. The administrator would presumably sell the interest in Newco for the most he could get, and the CLUB - being Newco - continues.
Ok, my take on what I have read. Given the ongoing tragic comedy that has been the Bulls for the last two years it would be foolish to rule anything in or out. But maybe the possible scenario I outlined might demonstrate that this could quite easily be a very positive development (unless maybe for OK) and not necessarily indcative of anything negative?
Ok, as you were.. Be well, guys.
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I've stayed away from places like this since early April. Making an exception, given the potential for real damage from uninformed or malicious comment. Then, as as you were.
My take on what I have read. No inside info, nothing other than what I have read. In particular, though, the wording of the OP's post - which may or may not be a bit mischievous but certainly IMO encourages jumping to conclusions - does not necessarily say what some of you guys look to have assumed it means.
1 - Yes, a new company Bradford Bulls (2014) ltd looks to have been incorporated. Forget all the waknerage from commercial sites, just go look at Companies House www.companieshouse.gov.uk for free.
2 - No, this does NOT in itself necessarily signify ANYTHING. For example, it could just be to protect the Bradford Bulls company name (although I suspect more than that).
3 - I cannot conceive that there is any intent by the new board to put the CLUB (note emphasis) into Administration AGAIN. Were they to do that, it would surely be goodnight Vienna for everyone - including themselves. After all that has gone on, I think anyone would hesitate to totally rule out the possibility, but it would surely have to be a desperate last resort tied up with the situation with OK rather than the club finances?
4 - OK Bulls Ltd has a big liability - secured by a charge on its assets - to OK. We were told c.£900k, IIRC?
5 - If I was the new Board, I would do my best to move the assets and all the non-OK liabilities into a new holding or subsidiary - or even just a connected company, if OK had not put anything in place to prevent it - to separate them from the liability to OK. That way, OK Bulls Ltd becomes a company with assets of loan to/shares in/whatever Newco, and a liability to OK. Everything else is in Newco. And OK's position is not compromised because the charge on the assets of OK Bulls ltd will include on the loan to/shares in Newco.
6 - Most definitely, if I was the new Board I would want to quarantine the club going forward from anything OK and the previous owners did or might have rendered the company liable for (known or unknown to them). For example, if it transpired that OK Bulls Ltd owed someone heaps (or someone had a big claim against it) that no-one knew about or some supposedly injured party came up with, a new liability that could bring down the club, you protect against that by shifting the club into Newco. Then, should OK Bulls Ltd go bust, that does not automatically bring down the CLUB. The administrator would presumably sell the interest in Newco for the most he could get, and the CLUB - being Newco - continues.
Ok, my take on what I have read. Given the ongoing tragic comedy that has been the Bulls for the last two years it would be foolish to rule anything in or out. But maybe the possible scenario I outlined might demonstrate that this could quite easily be a very positive development (unless maybe for OK) and not necessarily indcative of anything negative?
Ok, as you were.. Be well, guys.
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| The saga continues. Is it me or are others getting used to this sort of thing?
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| BUT - the actual issue is..
This whole thread WAS avoidable. This started with a tweet from an employee of one of the clubs sponsors. The account has now gone. From there it raced out of control like these things do.
However, if the current managers/owners of the club actually sat down and thought about handling and communicating (a) their actions - ie setting up some more companies at companies house and (b) how that action may be interpreted in the public domain and (c) the best way of communicating these things to the remaining customers they have.
Had this been done at the outset - there would have been no rumours in the first place - at least not about this subject (again!).
The silence from the Bulls at this time is deafening and disappointing.
Season ticket sales? Well it won't help will it?
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| Quote Bullseye="Bullseye"The saga continues. Is it me or are others getting used to this sort of thing?'"
Being a Bulls fan is a lot like owning a cat. You like it, and you spend money on it, but it does whatever the fook it likes, when it likes and never says a word; then it comes and rubs itself around your legs and purrs, so you feed it again with your hard-earned.
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| Quote Ferocious Aardvark="Ferocious Aardvark"Being a Bulls fan is a lot like owning a cat. You like it, and you spend money on it, but it does whatever the fook it likes, when it likes and never says a word; then it comes and rubs itself around your legs and purrs, so you feed it again with your hard-earned.'"
At least with a cat you can take it to the vet to get it sorted.
With no club announcement hard to call this but if the comment about the restructuring being necessary before new investment comes in then perhaps new sources of money want to be sure their cash gets spent on the team rather than clearing the OK debt ?
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| My views would relate to ANY RL club.
The main point is that a club cannot walk away from its debts and expect to carry on as if nothing had happened.
If the new owners want to set up a new company and transfer the club to it, that's fine so long as:
1. The debts of OK Bulls Ltd transfer to the new company as well and
2. The RFL oks it
That way, Bradford can pay the £900,000 back to Mr K out of its SKY money over a reasonable time period.
If, on the other hand, the new owners are going through these shenanigans as a way of attempting to avoid paying back the £900k by liquidating an insolvent OK Bulls Ltd, it should mean they start again from scratch in Championship 1.
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| What Adeybull said point 6.
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