FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > Crusaders in Administration
28 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach195No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2017Apr 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
44941.jpg
:44941.jpg



Quote: bobsmyuncle "I was not aware of that and it is interesting, I'll have a look at it. Need to know their interpretation of Insolvent
There are 2 scenarios for the generic term "Insolvent"
1. That the company does not have the funds available to pay debts when they fall due. This can merely be cash flow problems at any snapshot in time and discounts future income from Debtors or the like or the capabilty of encashing other assets to pay the debts.
This may not usually a long term problem.
2. That the Balance Sheet shows that there are not sufficient current assets to meet current liabilities.
This is a problem.'"


I suspect that the RFL interpretation quite simply that the club has been subject to some form of formal insolvency procedure (e.g. Administration, Liquidation, Company Voluntary Arrangement) rather than being insolvent in terms of application of the above "tests" which you quote.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach7107
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
36131_1571835935.jpg
nosorożce biorą to w dupę:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36131.jpg



Quote: bobsmyuncle "Not in this case. Its an Administrartion not a Receivership and the contracts are binding on the new employer and the employee.
Unless the employer imposes a fundemental change in terms or conditions the employee will be bound to the contract.'"


Will the players still be paid. I've come across a lot of instancesd where employees haven't been paid etc when their employers have gone into administration.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1894No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200817 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2017Nov 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza "Will the players still be paid. I've come across a lot of instancesd where employees haven't been paid etc when their employers have gone into administration.'"


Thats true - during the period of Administration as the wages are due from the existing company, and of course they won't pay during that time. When a new company takes over they must pay from the date of their take-over.
Thats if there is a new buyer.
Unfortunately what often happens is that the Administrators cant find a buyer who will pay a reasonable price for the company as a going concern (not least because of the financial onus of taking on the employee contracts which could include humungeous redundancy liabilities) and sit back to buy up only the assets they want. The company has then to go into a CVA (Creditors Voluntary Agreement) or directly into Receivership where the individual assets will be sold off to gain some recompense to the creditors. The employee's contracts would be cancelled and no wages paid.
In this case players, as all other employees, would be able to claim redundancy and pay in lieu of notice, not from the old company then The Insolvency Service - though both would be curtailed to the years of service which means nothing to employees of the short lived Celtic Crusaders.

The Crusader's case is unique in that it appears to have no tangible assets at all. No property, no cash. I discount player contracts as an asset as these are as much a liability as an asset in these times
It has evidently a sh*t load of debts which they cant pay and are trying to renage on by a legal mechanism.

Much will depend on whether a bank or persons hold a fixed charge over their future income.

The Administrators do have a responsibility to the creditors

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1894No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200817 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2017Nov 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: yougengis "I suspect that the RFL interpretation quite simply that the club has been subject to some form of formal insolvency procedure (e.g. Administration, Liquidation, Company Voluntary Arrangement) rather than being insolvent in terms of application of the above "tests" which you quote.'"


You "suspect" wrongly as each of terms should not be lumped together as being similar.

Think of it medical terms for your ailing body:
Administration : you go willing to hospital and have your brain and heart removed
you come out looking the same but it's not you.
CVA : You go williingly into hospital and finally accept euthanasia as the only way out
your body parts are caefully disected and sold the highest bidder
Receivership : As above but you are already dead.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach319No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 201015 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2019Mar 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
51435_1276261580.png
Resistance is futile.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_51435.png



Does this mean they'll be moving somewhere else again next year? Even closer to the traditional heartland?

CRUSADERS RELOCATE TO CLECKHEATON
RFL back new owners bold expansion plan

icon_rolleyes.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach195No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200916 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2017Apr 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
44941.jpg
:44941.jpg



Quote: bobsmyuncle "some stuff'"


No disrespect here, but you don't really seem to know what you're talking about. I also didn't try and state that those insolvency procedures are the same, simply that each [iis[/i an insolvency procedure.

Anyway, presuming this point has been removed from the RFL's rules, it doesn't really matter, but my comment was accurate.

Your description of the procedures, as well as being condescending, is also wrong. There is a brief summary of the difference between a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) and an Administration on rlthe Insolvency Service's websiterl which sets things out in fairly simple terms.

It would also appear you are confusing receivership with liquidation. Receivership is an "old" procedure; it wouldn't and couldn't apply to the Crusaders since the current company hasn't been around long enough to have granted security which would allow the holder of the security to appoint a receiver.

You are also confusing a CVA with liquidation.

In respect of employee (or player) wages - whilst an administrator does not adopt the contracts of the company to which he is appointed, he may "hire and fire" employees and salary costs will be met as an expense of the administration where the company, acting by its administrator, has continued to employ staff in order to trade during this period. Any arrears of wages, however, would not be paid (unless they are minimal and the administrator feels that it will help achieve the purpose of the administration if the arrears are brought up to date). The arrears would need to be claimed from the Insolvency Service's Redundancy Payments Office, which the RPO will pay up to the statutory limit which, I think, is currently £380 per week.

I can't be bothered clearing up the other inaccuracies in your posts right now, time for bed.

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7239No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024Feb 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
14782.jpg
The views in this post are mine and mine alone. Unless stated otherwise, they do not reflect the views of any company or entity I am associated with.:14782.jpg



Quote: mat "conveniently however the RFL have quietly removed the rule about insolvency being a reason for automatic expulsion from SL in last month or so.'"


Yep. Amazing how that happened just before this isn't it? It's almost like they were expecting it and changed the rules so that Crusaders didn't get kicked out. Although they'd never do that obviously.....

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
45_1302643626.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45.jpg



You can fool some of the fans all of the time, and all of the fans some of the time, but you can't fool all of the fans all of the time...

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach545No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2017Sep 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: DILLIGAF "Yep. Amazing how that happened just before this isn't it? It's almost like they were expecting it and changed the rules so that Crusaders didn't get kicked out. Although they'd never do that obviously.....'"


According to the Guardian the clubs voted for the rule change last month. I'm just guessing, but I assume that means there are a few clubs with money worries.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
45_1302643626.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45.jpg



I wonder if it was another one of those votes where Lewis threatened to resign if the motion was not supported?

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7239No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024Feb 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
14782.jpg
The views in this post are mine and mine alone. Unless stated otherwise, they do not reflect the views of any company or entity I am associated with.:14782.jpg



Quote: Dan155 "According to the Guardian the clubs voted for the rule change last month. I'm just guessing, but I assume that means there are a few clubs with money worries.'"


Doubt it. It was voted on by the clubs, that's correct. But I have no doubt that those who voted for the change were doing so in order to help save Crusaders. What their reasons for that are, I wouldn't know. But there's no doubt that's the only reason the change was made.

mat
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9554
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: DILLIGAF "Doubt it. It was voted on by the clubs, that's correct. But I have no doubt that those who voted for the change were doing so in order to help save Crusaders. What their reasons for that are, I wouldn't know. But there's no doubt that's the only reason the change was made.'"


whilst crusaders maybe the immediate beneficiary there may be a more self interested reason clubs have voted for change. Theres a rumour going round that several clubs maybe considering insolvency and then re-forming as a new company as a way of dodging the image rights issue which is hanging over every SL to a greater or lesser degree.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2318No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201015 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Yet Wakefield didn't shaft the taxman the paid there debt and still could be shafted for it.

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7239No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024Feb 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
14782.jpg
The views in this post are mine and mine alone. Unless stated otherwise, they do not reflect the views of any company or entity I am associated with.:14782.jpg



Quote: supercat "Yet Wakefield didn't shaft the taxman the paid there debt and still could be shafted for it.'"


We can but hope. icon_razz.gifRAY:

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner2874No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 200421 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
8762_1295775855.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_8762.jpg



Quote: bobsmyuncle "Not in this case. Its an Administrartion not a Receivership and the contracts are binding on the new employer and the employee.
'"


Wrong. Whitehaven went into administration recently and the administrator cancelled all contracts and the players became free agents. The contracts only continue as valid if the original company is bought as a "going concern" and remains trading under that name. If a new company buys the assets (tangible and intangible), as opposed to buying the existing business, then the contracts are invalid.

28 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
28 posts in 3 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


5.37109375:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
13m
Game - Song Titles
Cokey
40734
14m
BORED The Band Name Game
Cokey
63223
Recent
Film game
Wanderer
5640
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
18s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
MadDogg
4018
37s
Pre Season - 2025
mwindass
183
59s
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
1m
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
1m
Fixtures
Willzay
13
2m
TV Games - Not Hull
UllFC
3080
2m
Transfer Talk V5
The Biffs Ba
503
3m
Rumours and signings v9
NickyKiss
28895
3m
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
homerjsimpso
14
3m
New Kit
Saddened!
67
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2024
Butcher
5
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Butcher
5
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
ColD
2
TODAY
Catalan Away
jonh
5
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
rubber ducki
12
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
TODAY
England 5 - 0 Ireland
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To Newcastle
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
492
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
533
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1276
England's Women Demolish The W..
1100
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1343
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1134
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1400
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1933
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2151
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2391
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1960
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2198
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2661
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2094
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2166