we have won the super league as bradford bulls and loads of other trophies so why would we want to change? I see the point though because bradford is a mess.

And how far and wide do you think the T&A is read? Its not national news and if that is your reason for changing the name then do you think these things don't happen everywhere? Aviary near me had a load of birds decapitated by kids earlier in the year. Riots in Manchester city centre were international news but you don't hear Man Utd talking about dropping "Manchester" from their name.

I just don't think its a big deal for the club or something that anyone uses as the basis for supporting the club or not. If you are worried about effects to the clubs reputation outside of Bradford by stories in the T&A, then what I'm saying is don't - they don't register much outside Bradford.

It's not just the T&A though is it? When we used to live in Bradford and told people when travelling around the country where we came from it always got the same reaction, which was not very flattering, so by this i would imagine the club would suffer when trying to attract sponsors. I would assume to outsiders the name Northern Bulls would be more attarctive than Bradford Bulls.

I think we discuss this on a fairly regular basis. For me, a non Bradfordian, its the club I love not the city so I have no emotional links to the word "Bradford". That said, I can understand and respect the fact that those of us watching the club born in Bradford (and I'd still guess that to be the vast majority) are wary of dropping the name.

But as I say every time, we sit on the very edge of the district. We could retain our fanbase but remove ourselves from the clutches of ineptness simply by moving a few hundred yards down the 606.

I know, I was just also including the point made by Adey as well. As to if it would be the same club, I think that depends on each persons own view as to what the club is, to me the club is the community it is located in, and the supporters that have followed the club through the years, more so than what staff or players happen to be employed by the club at any given time.

If the community doesnt go with the club then to me its a different club, possibly just as valid, but not the same. As an example Wigan moved accross town, but it was the same name, community, same fans therefore same club. Wimbeldon FC moved to Milton Keynes, different community, different name, different fans therefore different club, in my personal view even though they retain the history of Wimbeldon - like I say others will no doubt have thier own view as to what a given club is.

Just on the name, I think you have to keep Bradford, and try to use the club as a way of being something positive about the city. Interesting point for discussion though.

You have made good points. It is the club NOT the city which we are supporting. As i said earlier it would be interesting to know how many of our supporters, NOT fans, actually live within the City of Bradford i supect there will be a large and increasing percentage who do not.
I can see no advantage in retaining the Bradford tag, as a brand it is the equivalent of Poundworld.

I do not agree 'Bradford' should be dropped whilst the Bulls are still in Bradford, obviously. However I can see why dropping the name could be an advantage in the world of re-branding, lets not forgot the re-invention from Northern to the Bulls, it worked coupled with a successful team! Also I totally agree that if you put the word Bradford with any company, organisation, etc it WILL promote a negative slant on that organisation. I was born and still live in Bradford (don't know for how long probably because I am starting to be one of those who rubbish Bradford as a place) and if I mention that to anybody outside the city in creates a picture of negativity and everything bad you can associate with the place even though I know the positive aspects. On the flip side if you say put word Leeds with an organisation (not in any way suggesting the Bulls should move to Leeds, never) it creates positivity whether we like it or not. E.G: Showcases Cinema is in Kirklees but states its in LEEDS! Whether I would support the 'Northern Bulls' if they moved out the city, I probably would and it would be probably quicker for Bulls' Fans to get there with a lot of support coming from the Calderdale/Kirklees area anyway!

MK Dons don't retain the history of Wimbledon - they did for a while, but the emergence of AFC Wimbledon as a 'proper' club put an end to that. So much so that MK even handed over the FA Cup from 1988 and this now stands on the honours board of AFC. They also never retained the community.

A club is not a physical entity, even in the days of clubs of businesses, but an organic being - made up of various constituent parts. Including its location. You can drop some of these parts, but if you continue to take away, it suddenly won't be that club anymore.

While it is a far more positive feeling working in Leeds than Bradford, I would say there is more crime & violence in Leeds. A large number of students are frequently beaten up around here but it doesn't seem to affect the image.

didn't realise that little twist, thanks. But it makes my point, a relocated club handing back history to the community where it belongs. And i agree with your second paragrapgh, the point where it crosses the line of not being the same club is very subjective I suspect and will be different for everyone.

It would still be the same club though, playing at the same ground but with a more appealing name.

Yes, we should stop being Bradford Bulls and become Leeds Bulls because Leeds is a much more positive 'brand' and will appeal more to ABC1 types.

Would you like that?

I think Middlesbrough FC should change to North Yorkshire Reds too, I mean Middlesbrough is a bit of a dump. Erm... and who like Burnley? That's a dead end town with no prospect of anything saving it... Pennine Clarets ftw.

Most of the negativity in Bradford seems to come from Bradfordians themselves, the outside view of the city probably suffers because of how some of those who live there are very bitter about everything.